Author Topic: New colony ship: Armored  (Read 3458 times)

Offline chemical_art

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New colony ship: Armored
« on: November 24, 2012, 11:06:05 pm »
In my current game I am facing a problem:

The worlds I want to take are continuously faced with nasty, nasty things.

Poor transports aren't enough to let the colony ship to survive.

What I was thinking was this:

What about a researchable upgrade to the colony ship? A much, much more durable one for when the normal one simply cannot get to its destination intact.

Guns optional, but the main purpose is one that allows more strategic options, or for those with satelite worlds and don't want to micro the process of getting the transport to its destination.


Can such an idea be implemented? It's a niche idea, but one that would be very helpful if needed.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 11:22:16 pm »
Protip:
Send multiple, empty, decoy transports.  The AI shots at the one in the lead first.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 11:38:04 pm »
Lead and trail empty transport works very well.  Lead one takes the alpha strikes, and the trailing one is what all the ships following you lock on to.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 11:38:37 pm »
Protip:
Send multiple, empty, decoy transports.  The AI shots at the one in the lead first.

Which is irrelevant if said target is 5 jumps away.

I've already tried the varying transport tactics. I'm looking for another piece of my toolbox. The AI is using AoE weapons, and the colony ship's pitiful HP means a single blast from a mk III <AoE weapon> results in annihilation.

I'm looking for the option to have a colony ship that doesn't die from a sneeze.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 11:43:55 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Histidine

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 12:20:18 am »
Cloaker Starship? (though this requires potentially expensive removal of tachyon guardians along the path, and can't go through a homeworld with a Core Eye)

Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing an armored colony ship.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 12:43:19 am »
Cloaker Starship? (though this requires potentially expensive removal of tachyon guardians along the path, and can't go through a homeworld with a Core Eye)

Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing an armored colony ship.

That is also an effective tactic.

However, even with group move, there is a tiny delay between wormholes where colony ships are not cloaked.

For other ship classes, either said ships are numerous or tough. The colony ship has neither. As a result, the cloaker starship is not reliable for protecting colony ships outside transport range (3 or 4 jumps)
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Offline LaughingThesaurus

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 01:34:54 am »
I think an armored colony ship should definitely have some kind of rather high cost for while-it's-in-the-field just so you can't have nearly invulnerable contingency plans lying around. The regular colony ships go down to a stiff breeze, after all, so stocking those up is kind of not amazing (unless you hang out in deep space and throw down a command station when things cool down or something).
Do something like a high energy cost that goes away when it starts building or something.

Otherwise I have no problem with armored colony ships. They just shouldn't basically be a straight upgrade of regular colony ships.

...ooh! Maybe you could have a variant of the colony ship that instead has a cloaking device. Tachyon beams knock it out, but that's why you knock out tachyon guardians then slip your colony ship through without worrying about cloaker starship woes.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 01:58:28 am »


...ooh! Maybe you could have a variant of the colony ship that instead has a cloaking device. Tachyon beams knock it out, but that's why you knock out tachyon guardians then slip your colony ship through without worrying about cloaker starship woes.

Straight up cloaking is fine.

I'm not thinking of armored as in 20 million HP or 100,000 armor.

Just something that makes it along starship ish hull strength (in which case no guns) whether it be direct HP in the millions (not tens of millions) or cloaking.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 02:03:26 am »
However, even with group move, there is a tiny delay between wormholes where colony ships are not cloaked.

Only if the colony ship goes through first or last.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 02:19:59 am »
However, even with group move, there is a tiny delay between wormholes where colony ships are not cloaked.

Only if the colony ship goes through first or last.

So...if I intensely micro it?

In practice, there is always a delay between when any ship is cloaked by the cloaker starship. At least in my games.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 02:26:17 am »
I think an armored colony ship should definitely have some kind of rather high cost for while-it's-in-the-field just so you can't have nearly invulnerable contingency plans lying around. The regular colony ships go down to a stiff breeze, after all, so stocking those up is kind of not amazing (unless you hang out in deep space and throw down a command station when things cool down or something).
Do something like a high energy cost that goes away when it starts building or something.

Otherwise I have no problem with armored colony ships. They just shouldn't basically be a straight upgrade of regular colony ships.

...ooh! Maybe you could have a variant of the colony ship that instead has a cloaking device. Tachyon beams knock it out, but that's why you knock out tachyon guardians then slip your colony ship through without worrying about cloaker starship woes.

Why are you worried about contingency plans? How much need for an emergency colony ship is there? A destroyed command station can be rebuilt by a rebuilder and those are cloaked already. Colony ships are for planets you haven't settled on before, that's rare enough and I can't even think of a situation where settling something is part of an emergency plan.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 02:31:47 am »
I think an armored colony ship should definitely have some kind of rather high cost for while-it's-in-the-field just so you can't have nearly invulnerable contingency plans lying around. The regular colony ships go down to a stiff breeze, after all, so stocking those up is kind of not amazing (unless you hang out in deep space and throw down a command station when things cool down or something).
Do something like a high energy cost that goes away when it starts building or something.

Otherwise I have no problem with armored colony ships. They just shouldn't basically be a straight upgrade of regular colony ships.

...ooh! Maybe you could have a variant of the colony ship that instead has a cloaking device. Tachyon beams knock it out, but that's why you knock out tachyon guardians then slip your colony ship through without worrying about cloaker starship woes.

Why are you worried about contingency plans? How much need for an emergency colony ship is there? A destroyed command station can be rebuilt by a rebuilder and those are cloaked already. Colony ships are for planets you haven't settled on before, that's rare enough and I can't even think of a situation where settling something is part of an emergency plan.

All the solutions in the player toolbox require intensely micro heavy solutions.

Load into transports (for short term solutions) or use cloaker starships (for heavily neutered solutions).

Both of these soltuitions basically cover up a very basic fact of colony ships: anything can kill them, period.

For most situations, that is fine. Like how tachyon drones (with enough micro) are fine for your tachyon needs or unusual situations.

However, tacyhon needs have more options. Because some players don't want intense micro.

For the same reason, I don't see how colony ships can't have an option for less intense micro.

This isn't a free option. You are paying the very real K cost for an expanded strategy tool box.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 04:18:58 am »
I know, I'm arguing that I can't think of a case where it would be cheese or OP.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 07:31:37 am »
I know, I'm arguing that I can't think of a case where it would be cheese or OP.

Ah ok, sorry.

The most I could come up with is it being a meatshield. However, if you make it's health in the starship range, and have the cost in the starship range as well, then the tactic is ineffective for you are paying for a starship without guns when you could have a starship with guns (unless you needed that colonization).
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Offline LaughingThesaurus

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Re: New colony ship: Armored
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 01:13:24 pm »
I know, I'm arguing that I can't think of a case where it would be cheese or OP.

Ah ok, sorry.

The most I could come up with is it being a meatshield. However, if you make it's health in the starship range, and have the cost in the starship range as well, then the tactic is ineffective for you are paying for a starship without guns when you could have a starship with guns (unless you needed that colonization).
This seems okay. I was worried about the idea of basically a straight upgrade to something that already exists only for a very specialized purpose (colonizing planets). Any other straight upgrades don't render the old things obsolete because the old things can be built to their caps separately-- which gives you a whole lot of extra [whatever the thing does].
So yeah I dunno, 1000k to unlock a colony starship seems fine. I just don't want it to be the only way to go obviously.