New Brutal AI plot...

[Fluffiest]

Maybe instead the 100 AIP bump should be split up over the various steps that are part of dealing with the HW (a bump for disabling a CSG network, a bump for each core guard post killed and of course one for the finishing blow) so that making both home commands vulnerable at the same time also results in boosted AI responses, not a lull until you actually finish one off.

No, wait, this. Reduce the AIP cost for killing an AI home command station, increase the AIP cost for killing a core guard post, keep the totals about the same.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I like the idea of increasing the AIP cost of destroying CSGs themselves. Typically, when I grab a CSG planet, it's not even a decision. It's just, 'boom goes the CSG, because I have it'.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think AIP on death would work for the current CSGs, you could just capture them all and then destroy them all simultaneously, again avoiding the AIP until the last minute.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Edit: Shoot. I thought CSGs negated supply on the planets that they were on.
If they did, it'd certainly be a pretty big decision, kinda like the monkey wrench co-processors.

[Winge]

I believe someone already reported that the Avenger is indeed affected by the Speed Racer.

I think someone tried, but the Avenger caught up before they could hit "post".

That would be me.  The Avenger would have caught up, if it hadn't wandered in the worst (for it) possible direction it could have gone.

I don't think AIP on death would work for the current CSGs, you could just capture them all and then destroy them all simultaneously, again avoiding the AIP until the last minute.

I disagree for a different.  The CSGs are already a way to force a 'minimum win AIP' by forcing you to destroy the AI Command Station on their planet.  Do they really need additional +AIP?

[chemical_art]

Perhaps half the AIP gain from popping an AI HW, but increase the AIP gain from core guard posts from 2 to 10?

[Hearteater]

Best idea I've heard in this thread is to randomly make one of the AI homeworlds invulnerable until the other AI homeworld falls.  To keep this from completely ruining the strategy that comes from picking HW order, maybe a few small +AIP structures could be seeded that reverse the invulnerability when destroyed.  Maybe 5 AIP +5 additional AIP per GP destroyed on the formerly vulnerable HW to prevent using such a structure to just double kill both HW by swapping after killing all the vulnerable Core GPs.

[keith.lamothe]

Some time ago Keith said they wont add more "kill x to be able to damage the AI Command Stations" (CSG) kind of stuff.

I was thinking of stuff "out in the galaxy somewhere", rather than on the homeworlds themselves.

I've actually been thinking for a month or two of just adding a base-game rule that once you launch a serious attack on an AI HW (any kind of serious fleet presence, any kind of damage on a core guard post), the other AI HW goes into "siege mode" and stays invincible (core posts and station) until the first AI HW goes down.  The idea of making it a plot didn't occur to me.

But I'm not sure about doing it as it does feel kinda "on rails" like the CSGs (my main objection to CSGs, even though I play with them on).  But on the other hand I don't think it's very rail-y because you get to choose the order you do the HWs in.

I suppose an alternative would be to have some extra-brutal core posts that only activate when the other HW is attacked, and blow up when the other HW dies.  So hitting both simultaneously would be particularly nasty.  But it would still be a strategic option, and you could weigh the pain of dealing with those extra posts vs the pain of dealing with the 100 AIP of killing the first station.

Personally I want the AI to just go coocoo-for-cocoa-puffs-gotta-kill-the-player-now when the human actually attacks an AI HW, but it kinda runs counter to the goal of having the game be winnable.  I know, many of you may be surprised to hear about that goal

[Faulty Logic]

New AI type: Beserker:
When you enter its homeworld, it frees all of its ships. Yes, all of them.

Edit: every diff 10 AI should also have this property. Beserker 10 launches an exo as well.

[KDR_11k]

So how about instead of providing total immunity the CSGs merely project a 1GHP shield on top of random core guard posts? Each CSG network would maintain a different shield.

Overall it feels kinda odd that while there are two AI homeworlds you spend 90% of the game building up your forces and making them vulnerable and 10% fighting one after the other. It kinda feels like you should be attacking one of them at the half way point through the game.

Total ship freeing isn't allowed for performance reasons.

[keith.lamothe]

New AI type: Beserker:
When you enter its homeworld, it frees all of its ships. Yes, all of them.

Edit: every diff 10 AI should also have this property. Beserker 10 launches an exo as well.

You're welcome to demo this ability by using the "pull the lever" cheat at the appropriate time

[keith.lamothe]

So how about instead of providing total immunity the CSGs merely project a 1GHP shield on top of random core guard posts? Each CSG network would maintain a different shield.

Some smartaleck with a raid starship would do something silly.

Overall it feels kinda odd that while there are two AI homeworlds you spend 90% of the game building up your forces and making them vulnerable and 10% fighting one after the other. It kinda feels like you should be attacking one of them at the half way point through the game.

In one way, it does feel that way.  But in another, wouldn't a serious human attack on one HW (let alone the destruction of one of the HWs) make the other AI likely to go bananas on you?

I don't like that the double-kill is basically the only sane decision nowadays, but I think the first HW kill going at the 80% to 90% mark (time-wise, with the second obviously being at the 100% mark) makes sense.

Total ship freeing isn't allowed for performance reasons.

It'd be fine, I'd just carrier-up everything over the first three or four thousand ships.

My main objection to a non-cheat "pull the lever" mechanic is that you guys would abuse it so hard.  The impenetrable human defense planets are bad enough without giving you a "push to feed entire AI mobile presence into chipper shredder" button

[zoutzakje]

I like the idea of super nasty core guard posts that spawn on a HW once you attack the other, and die automatically when you killed the other hw. This still gives you the choice of attacking which homeworld you like, when you like. But the consequenses could be bigger.
I like CSG's the way they are now, though I wouldn't mind seeing them become something more special. Right now they serve no purpose other than to protect the HWs. I don't see why we need to shoot them in the first place. when we capture a planet with a CSG on it, we already have taken the +20 AIP penalty. I've always wondered why CSG's don't blow up automatically when we captured a planet with one on it. So perhaps we can think of something more inventive with them.
I don't think decreasing HW command AIP and giving CSG's AIP is a good idea. Remember, CSG's are optional. This could make the game a lot easier for people who don't play with CSG's.

[LaughingThesaurus]

What if the all-ship-freeing thing happened as the attack went on, but only gradually? Every guard post you destroy, based on AIP and AI difficulty, a large portion of random AI ships are freed and sent on the attack or defense at random. If the AI runs out of ships, the AI provides bursts of reinforcements to all of its planets, and releases those ships, never leaving any planet undefended.
What it does allow, is it allows the defense and offense to be frantic and desperate, and all the more, the more guard posts are destroyed. The AI will wipe you off the map if it possibly can by diverting all of its forces as it can to stopping you. Might be worth experimenting with. If you went for the old fashioned double kill, you'd be getting double the maximum ship freeing brutalizing moments before the final blow, which could well be a harrowing experience.
Thing is, it really just sounds like a galaxy-wide stacking raid engine to me, the more that I think about it.

[Faulty Logic]

About the double kill, and increasing response: How about shifting the first 50 AIP of the homeworld command stations to entering (with a military ship) that HW?

I also like the idea of having each CGP release threat.