Nerf Teleporting

[rubikscube]

I personally hardly ever use teleport battle stations or any other teleporting stuff, but from what i percieve from the engineer teleporting it DOESN'T pause at all (meaning after teleporting it can immiediately attack) Either that or it's WAY too short.

Second, I'm not sure if this is fixed, but group moving still sucks with teleporting stuff.

Third, just for fun, you can just teleport your stuff very far from damage so it will only suffer from sniper shots, maybe extending the delay will fix this.

Fourth, theoretically, you can teleport really far from the center of the map.

Fifth, teleporting without supply is not cool.

(some things i haven't been reading from the patch notes, just saying)

[snrub_guy]

I disagree, I think it's well balanced at the moment. The teleporting units have a role that they fill very well, but I don't think they are over powered. Similar to space planes and cloaked units in their ability at hit and run attacks.

If you plan defences carefully, i.e using force fields and tractor beams effectively, then you can combat the teleport units fairly effectively, and while they can be very useful to the player, the A.I usually has some way to deal with them.

I will concede the group move with them is a little annoying, but I suppose they are used in a different way from just group moving a blob, like Zenith Bombardments.

M

[rubikscube]

I didn't say it's bad for player, i meant it's too good for player, cloak can only recloak after a few seconds, while teleporting with no delay is op

[Winter Born]

DNFTT 

[Epsilon Plus]

Teleport battle stations have a fire/re-teleport delay based on how far they've moved. Also, I think I read that damage/shield effect is calculated when the shot is fired, not when it impacts a ship.

[DakaSha]

teleport stations around version 2.0 were way overpowered in my opinion but it seems they have been massively nerfed by making turrets immune to them and are quite well balanced now (i dont even prefer them to be honest)

At least i remember using them and them destroying whole planets without a problem

[superking]

teleport battlestations are a noobtrap, if you are warpgate raiding you only have one planet that receives waves anyway

much more useful to take a unique unit that facilitates attacking  

[RogueThunder]

teleport battlestations are a noobtrap, if you are warpgate raiding you only have one planet that receives waves anyway

much more useful to take a unique unit that facilitates attacking  

*chuckles* O'rly...
Teleport Battle-stations can chew up AI ships that are distracted in systems you don't control too, taking advantage of even a minor split in forces. And just to facilitate this being possible... Teleport Battle-stations are also great at distracting AI ships xD...
There's nothing quite like Teleport Battle-stations for minimizing losses to other fleets yet risking ships of no great value excluding perhaps FF Bearers depending on your fleet. (per cap, tele battle stations are pretty damn cheap.)
Furthermore, they are mildly effective against Mk.I Force-fields, and AMAZING at taking out special forces guard posts. Not to mention normal guard-posts.

Plus. For bonus if you don't mind a little micro. Teleport Battle-stations can also outright evade shots. Particularly amusing against ships that are supposedly strong vs them.


They are admittedly, both micro-intensive and unconventional I will admit though.
And commonly misdeligated to defense. Although they do excel at "oh shit" defense. Particularly thus far in my experience in multiplayer where said can be occasionally urgent, and urgent is something Teleports are extraordinary at. Though their relative ineffectiveness vs bombers(and uselessness against autobombs...) does lose them some points here.

Also. They lack the ridiculous frailty of Teleport Raiders. Whom become a bit of a pain to use once the AI catches on and institutes large quantities of Lighting Turrets. Although Teleport Raiders ironically do a much better job on defense, due to laughing off bombers... a common irritating threat. Not to say that once clear of Lighting Turrets they can't do juuust about the same functions as Teleport Battle-stations.

I would personally think of Teleport Battle-stations as augmentative support, and minor raiding.



Now as for if teleporting should be nerfed? If so, not much I would hope. Frankly I could stand teleport cooldown being a little more, if the damn moron's didn't teleport all into a pile, causing them to hyper-suicide into ANY form of splash damage. But with this... suicidal movement routine. The cooldown being short enough that they spread out fairly fast is rather necessary.
(I am aware of formation move and sticky formations btw, and infact use them constantly. However teleports do not obey these if given an attack order.)

[Winter Born]

  my comments in blue

Already nerfed The AI used them to blitz humans once apon a time --- see X4000 coments in this thread from about 9 months ago--- http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,621.0.html
Besides, if they were still way overpowerd they would be a favorite and everyone would use them.

I personally hardly ever use teleport battle stations or any other teleporting stuff, but from what i percieve from the engineer teleporting it DOESN'T pause at all (meaning after teleporting it can immiediately attack) Either that or it's WAY too short.
see the link above on nerfing things you do not use.

Second, I'm not sure if this is fixed, but group moving still sucks with teleporting stuff.

Third, just for fun, you can just teleport your stuff very far from damage so it will only suffer from sniper shots, maybe extending the delay will fix this.   Reduce the fun factor for other people?

Fourth, theoretically, you can teleport really far from the center of the map. Theoretically, why is this bad?

Fifth, teleporting without supply is not cool. Why, ships can use their guns when out of supply, and X4000 made teleporting that way

(some things i haven't been reading from the patch notes, just saying) 

[snip]
So, putting that together with the expansion, we're up to a whopping 415 ships in the game.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see another 50 ships as free DLC by the time the next expansion comes out, and the next expansion is likely to add somewhere in the 100-200 ships range, so by the middle of 2011 we're going to be pushing towards a total of 600-700 ships in this game.

     I think from this and other comments by X4000 that there will always be ships that will be personal favorites, or considered usless, or considered overpowered by certain people based on their playstyle. (see the posts in this thread by DakaSha & Superking) X4000 desires a lack of balance to a degree and with 1000 ships (300+ types) balance will never be perfect and again to suit diferent play styles true balance is imposible to define. -- BTW I look forward to some excellent mini-game submitions from you after the scenario editor comes out. I think scenario submitions will become a whole new branch of the forums.

[Aegis]

I disagree with Rubikscube's opening remarks. I think Winter Born's individual replies sums up my feelings here but I have a bit more I'd like to add.

Nerfing OR boosting something you rarely use is bad.  I would argue that it takes a few hours, or even a few full-length campaigns to find a ship's uses, flaws, and strengths, then be able to talk about them. Any attempt at a nerf/buff before that is just for front-end stuff while we miss any sort of peculiarities that made that ship what it was.

In the few games that saw me use them either from the start or advanced research, I always micromanaged this unit while blobbing out the bulk of my force on a planet, so I can't really comment on group move, other than it obviously teleporting to a position waay in advance of a 12-28 speed blob.

You mention its ability to teleport far out of the normal hot zone of a planet. I would contend that all ships can eventually get that far, including pitifully slow cruisers. As such, I see no point in nerfing the range of only teleports. Even if you said reduce the range of all ships to the 80,000 range set by the control node, I'd bring up losing the ability to tackle marauders before they got close. Due to speed, I would of course send teleports or ships faster than 28, like planes and raid starships.


teleporting without supply you say? Perhaps with engineers, as they are support craft, but you've nuetered any mobile military.
See: shooting, using colony ships, and general movement of other non-teleporting ships. Removing ANY of the previous mechanics would make the ships that use said mechanic useless on a planet 2 hops away. The game quickly becomes a game of taking the nearest planet and playing connect the dots until home-world is found in order to fully utilize your given force. Meanwhile, because the AI is automatically given all of the other 119 planets, its fleet will move with almost no supply-based penalties.

[rubikscube]

First, I didn't say I don't use them at all, I'm summing up all those happy people comments about getting a 100:1 kd ratio with tbs's, and of course nothing to do with the thread.

Second group moving even you say needs a lot of fixing nothing else.

Third, due to a map is infinite big, teleporting really far around the map is very exploitive, as the fast raiders will go at a speed of 1 very fast: solution, make the map contained.

Teleporting without supply is just kinda wierd

[DakaSha]

how is teleporting without supply weird. Ships can do everything without supply. Your basically saying that something which is probably physically impossible in the first place (in a practical sense)  is "not behaving realistically" 

[rubikscube]

No, i'm saying that if transports can't even hold on to things when out of supply, teleporting is even wierder, as for unlimited ammo and such, it's normal relative to the story

[superking]

Third, due to a map is infinite big, teleporting really far around the map is very exploitive, as the fast raiders will go at a speed of 1 very fast: solution, make the map contained.

I agree that this is exploitable

Teleporting without supply is just kinda wierd

I dont see why you think suppy and teleporting should be related.

high level play involves only capturing key planets, which might mean a bridge of 3-4 AI planets between each of your worlds. If teleporting units could not teleport out of supply, they would effectively be grounded in the system they were produced on.

[rubikscube]

Fine, then nerf the engi's teleporting