Author Topic: Need some advice  (Read 2860 times)

Offline slardy

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Need some advice
« on: July 07, 2011, 08:20:54 pm »
So I'm playing my first game against level 5 and 6 AI. I've already played and beat the tutorial campaign. So.. Iv'e hit a wall. In order to progress I need to get though this one system and I can't get anything through. I've spent all my knowledge and can't upgrade anything. When I enter this sytem, there are hundreds of these ships called "Zenith Bombardment Ship" There are Mark I II and III. AI is at pissed level 1 still at about 150. Everything that goes into that system gets instantly meat grinded by these Bombardment ships. If I try to put ships in transports Mark I they get grinded in about 2 seconds after entering the system. I've tried to clear an entrance to make a shield in the system to launch my attack from, but nothing lasts long enough. I could launch a bunch of missles in there but the AI seems to have an endless supply of these "Zenith Bombarment Ships".

Any advise would be appreciated.

Offline x4000

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 08:35:43 pm »
That's a tricky situation -- ideally you'd scout first and then unlock in response to what you find on the other side, so not having free knowledge is a mite of a disadvantage.  But!  All is definitely not lost.

As the LAST resort, you can always nuke the planet.  So if all else fails, that won't for this -- but the price is steep in terms of AIP, so it's not something to do lightly.  As another near-last resort, you could use EMPs, but that's also not something to do too lightly.

You can also flood the system with many transports (as a general rule) to increase the survivability of them.  So send in 5 or 10 transports instead of 1, and they'll live 5 or 10 times as long.  Still that probably wouldn't do it here, but I figured I'd mention it.

Bombards are sub-sniper range so the scout starships won't help you. 

However, if I recall bombards now really stink against force fields, so you could bring in a force field of some sort with you.  If you have riot starships, you could do it via those.  Or if you don't, I don't think there are many other good options force-field-wise in the very short term unless you have spire shield bearers as an option via asteroid mining (having spirecraft turned on, which are off by default because they make the game way harder).  You could build a force field on that planet, though, if you can get a mobile builder and some engineers in there, pause the game, and get them all building the FF as fast as possible.  There's a good chance of them getting killed too fast, though, so you may need a diversion with your main fleet to get that established.  Once the FF is up, then it can move (painfully slowly) around that planet to protect your fleet as it moves.  Not the first option, but it would work.

Another thing to bear in mind in general is the divide and conquer trick: make sure that as little as possible is shooting at you at any one time.  To do that, check out the ranges of your enemy with the Z+X hotkey.  Go where the fewest circles overlap, and start whittling.  It might take multiple waves, but that usually can give very good results even with bombards.  Unless your situation is just abnormally unlucky (which does happen, but that's why scouting ahead also is critical with bottlenecks in particular).

Another option, if you're playing with the Zenith Remnant expansion, would have been cloaker starships.  However, those cost knowledge so you're kind of trapped out of those for now.  But they keep your ships in a bunch invisible, and thus keep the enemy from shooting you.

Lastly, something that is generally effective against very long-range ships are ships with radar dampening.  Specifically, raid starships are a good example.  You could build a full complement of those, put them in a transport, and bum-rush the AI command station, the AI guard posts, or otherwise to try to cripple the planet.  Meanwhile have your forces (plus turrets and minefields if need be) waiting on your own side of that wormhole, on your planet.  If you can get the guard posts killed, the bombards will likely move closer to your wormhole so that you can pop through and surprise them without getting killed before being in range.

I can't remember offhand how much armor piercing bombards have, but if they don't have much then you also want ships with a lot of armor.  If you can look at the stats and see what you have that is strongest against bombards, then send in transports of that type of ship NOT to strike the bombards, but to strike the guard posts.  Send in lots of fighters as chaff for the bombards to shoot at, if your stuff is still dying too fast.


And... off the top of my head that's all I can think of.  It's definitely a predicament you're in, but it's not a permanent roadblock.  There's always the nuclear option if all else fails.  But your AIP can only absorb so many of those, so use them with care!

Good luck! :)
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 08:44:15 pm »
...


Some add ons. Bombards have 100k armor pierce armor is almost meaningless. Transports followed by fighters followed by main fleet is the tactic I would use to get through. One EMP should give your own fleet more then enough time to turn the battle in your favor, remember to have the bombers focus on the bombards since they get a bonus.
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Offline slardy

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 08:53:46 pm »
Thanks guys, lot's of good advise here and things I haven't thought of. I'm thinking I may be doomed as the AI has launched a counter attack and destroyed 4 of my 7 systems, but I may be beating them back. Too early to tell. Seem's the Zenith Bombardment Ships don't like shields, like you said. I'll have to be more carefull with my knowledge spending next game and unlock based on what the AI has got.  I'll try some of this stuff out and post back the results.

Offline Awod

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 01:52:47 pm »
Last year I had a game like that, found the thread. Trying to see if I can find some screenshots it was definitely an interesting one.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,6846.0.html

Offline slardy

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 03:42:05 pm »
Yep Awod, sounds just like what's going on with my game. I'm not even fighting the Core ones, so I expect it to get worse. I look around the known Map and almost ever sector has tons of these Bombardment ships.

I managed to regain my planets but i'm back to the stalemate again. The number of Zenith Bombardment Ships (ZBS) is about 600. Anything at all that goes in is instant chum. Ends up I had enough knowledge left to unlock the Raid Ships. My idea was to try the shield ones and the cloak ones. The shield won't work, it doesn't even last long enough for me to see it after warp and I've not figured out the cloaking mechanics yet. If I put my cloak ships though, they are ignored, but if I put them though then my fleet, the fleet still gets meatgrinded. I tried a cloak ship and a lab and it worked but I can't get through the next wormhole to get knowledge because of a tachyon guardian. If I missle the tahcyon guardian, I will surely be wiped out in the next couter attack. At this point, I feel legitimized to nuke the buggers as my progress has completely stoped. If I can sneak around cloaked after nuking them and get knowledge, what is the absolute best thing to fight the ZBS with? I don't want to waste the knowledge on something that's not specificaly for killing these guys.

Offline Zair

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 04:32:27 pm »
Planets that have been destroyed by a nuclear missile block supply, keep that in mind. Without supply you can't get the knowledge from that world.

It might help to know what your current bonus ship types are (anything that isn't a scout, fighter, bomber or missile frigate.)

Offline slardy

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 05:55:27 pm »
I lost. I launched the nuke, It went of prematurly from getting shot. Lost that system. AI struck back and meatgrinded all my systems, then my home world last. Have to say, all and all, a good time. Now I want revenge.

Offline Nalgas

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Re: Need some advice
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 08:24:25 pm »
Have to say, all and all, a good time. Now I want revenge.

Heh.  That sounds familiar.  That still happens to me, a year later.  Some winning, lots of losing in new and different (and sometimes just plain old stupid, on my part) ways, and still that feeling of wanting to go back and do it again and get it right next time.

That's kind of a rough starting AI ship type to go up against in your first game, since dealing with them effectively can be a bit less straightforward than some of the others, but that's what keeps things interesting.