No Alternate Mechanic for Forcefields

[TechSY730]

Hmmm, good point about the AI command stations.

Really, what I'm after is a way to make the home command more survivable. I am a big fan of stacking more FFs on top of my command station to do so as that is the only way to actually make the command station more durable.

And FF immune units come along making all that effort into protecting my home command worthless.

Maybe an unlock of some sort so you only needed it if that game seed required it? (IE: the AI has lots of FF immune units).

D.

I thought I posted on mantis an idea for a command station exo-shield unlock (sons cloaking of course), but I can't seem to find it anywhere. If I can't find it after a bit more looking, I'm going to throw it up there.

[chemical_art]

There already is a turret that swipes most FF immune turrets.

Looking at the list of FF immune stuff:
Cutless: Close combat ----> Flak
Eyebot: Refractive --------> Flak
Inflatrator: Swarmer ------> Flak
Spire ram: Heavy ---------> Not flak
Vampire claw: Refractive --> Flak
Raid starship : Refractive -> Flak on paper but not in practice

I'm sure I missed some things, but flak turrets annhilate most FF immune things.

The military command station counters the cutlass and the claw outright with immunity, and it counters the eyebot hard in that it nullifies its cloaking, and the anti missile turret outright stops the eybot. The rest are vulunerable to gravity turrets.

[TechSY730]

There already is a turret that swipes most FF immune turrets.

Looking at the list of FF immune stuff:
Cutless: Close combat ----> Flak
Eyebot: Refractive --------> Flak
Inflatrator: Swarmer ------> Flak
Spire ram: Heavy ---------> Not flak
Vampire claw: Refractive --> Flak
Raid starship : Refractive -> Flak on paper but not in practice

I'm sure I missed some things, but flak turrets annhilate most FF immune things.

Yep, which is why I almost always place some flak turrets near and/or next to my command stations I want to defend.

[Lancefighter]

Flak turrets also have pitiful range, incredibly low caps, and generally arent worth unlocking more of.

[TechSY730]

Hmmm, good point about the AI command stations.

Really, what I'm after is a way to make the home command more survivable. I am a big fan of stacking more FFs on top of my command station to do so as that is the only way to actually make the command station more durable.

And FF immune units come along making all that effort into protecting my home command worthless.

Maybe an unlock of some sort so you only needed it if that game seed required it? (IE: the AI has lots of FF immune units).

D.

I thought I posted on mantis an idea for a command station exo-shield unlock (sons cloaking of course), but I can't seem to find it anywhere. If I can't find it after a bit more looking, I'm going to throw it up there.

Well, I couldn't find it, so I went ahead and posted it, 9534: Exo-shield for command stations (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9534)

Vote up if you like.

[Lancefighter]

found it. it probably helps that I posted it in the first place :p

[TechSY730]

found it. it probably helps that I posted it in the first place :p

Thanks Lancefighter.
How the frip did I miss that?

[LaughingThesaurus]

Flak turrets also have pitiful range, incredibly low caps, and generally arent worth unlocking more of.

In practice, do Flak Turrets fail to do their job at defending command stations from FF immune enemies? Part of the game would then be unlocking them only if the enemy has enough raid-type ships that you actually need to have automatic defenses keep an eye out on your home command/etc. If they're crap at other things, well, that's a different topic entirely.

[Lancefighter]

wait what? Flak turrets can be placed under forcefields for 75% effectiveness? When did this happen?

Anyway, my last game included both eyebots and infiltrators. According to the controls screen, cap for cap mk1 v mk1 they work well. I guess if they can actually be placed under forcefields decently, I should do that. Mostly they just dont reach the commandcenter from the outside of a mk2? field.

[Toranth]

Flak turrets also have pitiful range, incredibly low caps, and generally arent worth unlocking more of.

In practice, do Flak Turrets fail to do their job at defending command stations from FF immune enemies? Part of the game would then be unlocking them only if the enemy has enough raid-type ships that you actually need to have automatic defenses keep an eye out on your home command/etc. If they're crap at other things, well, that's a different topic entirely.

Flak turrets are not designed to target FF immune enemies.  Flak turrets are an AOE weapon, designed to do damage to multiple targets, usually swarmers and their ilk, simultaneously.  That's way they are so bad at defending against individual attackers.

I usually prefer to use MLRS turrets near my command centers - more damage, multipliers against the same types, and better capability to focus the damage against must-kill targets.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh yeah, yeah, I definitely know they target groups of enemies... but they also get multipliers against raiders, which gives them that secondary role to fill.

[doctorfrog]

If a change had to be made, I'd definitely favor it to be toward flak turrets. I usually just place some under my Home Command to get use out of them at all, since the short range and relatively low cap makes them unattractive for other uses. So, if they aren't that effective against FF-immune units, I'd be happier to see that change, rather than introduce a new shield just for an edge case.

If I'm not mistaken, snipers are already good against larger single units that are FF-immune, and since their range is infinite, they can be placed anywhere. Between the two of these turrets, is there really a problem? If the enemy seems to prefer FF-immunity, your response should be to adapt accordingly. Even if the Home Command is still more vulnerable to this, relative to other forms of attack, the game doesn't need to be balanced at a zero point for every possible game configuration. I'd also argue that encountering a situation and polling through possible combinations of defensive tech is more interesting than just picking a stronger shield.

My personal bias: sometimes games are at their best when they hate you. 

[Winge]

There already is a turret that swipes most FF immune turrets.

Looking at the list of FF immune stuff:
Cutless: Close combat ----> Flak
Eyebot: Refractive --------> Flak
Inflatrator: Swarmer ------> Flak
Spire ram: Heavy ---------> Not flak
Vampire claw: Refractive --> Flak
Raid starship : Refractive -> Flak on paper but not in practice

I'm sure I missed some things, but flak turrets annhilate most FF immune things.

The military command station counters the cutlass and the claw outright with immunity, and it counters the eyebot hard in that it nullifies its cloaking, and the anti missile turret outright stops the eybot. The rest are vulunerable to gravity turrets.

Raid Starships are actually Ultra-Light--assuming that their in-game tooltip is correct.  Snipers work best against them, because they have immunity against Radar Dampening, infinite range, and a good bonus against Ultra-Light.  And, as you mentioned, Gravity works great against Raid Starships.

[Draco18s]

Raid Starships are actually Ultra-Light--assuming that their in-game tooltip is correct.  Snipers work best against them, because they have immunity against Radar Dampening, infinite range, and a good bonus against Ultra-Light.  And, as you mentioned, Gravity works great against Raid Starships.

I build 5+ sniper turrets on every planet these days.

[chemical_art]

There already is a turret that swipes most FF immune turrets.

Looking at the list of FF immune stuff:
Cutless: Close combat ----> Flak
Eyebot: Refractive --------> Flak
Inflatrator: Swarmer ------> Flak
Spire ram: Heavy ---------> Not flak
Vampire claw: Refractive --> Flak
Raid starship : Refractive -> Flak on paper but not in practice

I'm sure I missed some things, but flak turrets annhilate most FF immune things.

The military command station counters the cutlass and the claw outright with immunity, and it counters the eyebot hard in that it nullifies its cloaking, and the anti missile turret outright stops the eybot. The rest are vulunerable to gravity turrets.

Raid Starships are actually Ultra-Light--assuming that their in-game tooltip is correct.  Snipers work best against them, because they have immunity against Radar Dampening, infinite range, and a good bonus against Ultra-Light.  And, as you mentioned, Gravity works great against Raid Starships.

Good call on ultra-light instead of refractive, but the end result is the same. Even though the flak cannon gets a bonus to its damage, it still isn't enough to puncture the armor cleanly. although mk II flaks and above do get somewhat through the armor. A sniper free in K and in over twice the cap does more damage then a mk III flak cannon.

Flak cannons are not like the usual turrets in that its not meant to be held far away like other turrets. It's powerful aoe, short range, and high health means it is most effective right in the middle of the ai path, preferably under shields. However, I do think the flak cannon does need a higher cap or a buff. It is already very expensive as far as turrets go, and unless its nature of being forced under turrets and short range means the few you get with its caps make it not give as much "umph". 1v1 I can argue its uses: 1 v 2 it is much harder.

For this reason, the best all round anti ff combo by far is MLRS and lightning turret. MLRS are not as high potential dps as the flag 1v1 in huge waves, but its much higher range and higher caps make it much more flexible and effective, and it gives drones for enclaves to boot.  MLRS cream all but the refractive hull type, and the lightning absolutely, positively melts the numerous but individually frail eyebots.