Mobile Builders, are they needed?

[chemical_art]

I'm trying to find why mobile builders are needed. They make no great impact except needing some micro.

It's not like you can build outside of supply, so its not like those MK III engineers are going to the enemy homeworld to build a base.

The question is not why use them, the question is why they are necessary rather then let engineers both build in system and out of system. This question is a method of eliminating potential micro.

[keith.lamothe]

Building turrets/whatever on an adjacent enemy world before you've taken it.

[Wingflier]

Not super-important but nice to have around.

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=1579  Made this suggestion almost 2 years ago now.  Back then you didn't even have automatic mobile-builder foldouts on allied planets.

I still think it's a neat idea

[chemical_art]

Sorry, to clarify:

What does having a builder needed instead of a engineer needed to allow construction on planets in supply that you don't have accomplish aside from another unit? What exploit does the builder prevent rather then letting an engineer straight out build?

[Wingflier]

It just adds an extra element of micromanagement really, doesn't add anything special to the game in its current state.

[Diazo]

An engineer is not a constructor, when you hit B to build things, the ECON-CONST-etc... menu that comes up is from your command station.

A mobile builder allows this menu is a system that is in supply but does not have a command station.

Over the games changes the past few years it has moved from an absolute critical unit to a niche unit.

I think the only time I use it these days is to setup a reception for a superteminal before activating it.

Niche yes, but very worthwhile when you need it.

D.

[PokerChen]

Keeping a mobile builder on the edge of town allows you to build some emergency things if your CS goes down. Separating the build function from engineers in this way is a good thing: during an AI attack, the local engineers will often get ganked by AI ships, especially when they're in FRD or autobuilt near the CS.

It's also nice to *start* a layer of defences while your engies are in another system repairing a fleet (never use MRSes, they're currently inefficient), or your CS is still under construction.

[platinawolf]

Hacking the ARS comes to mind ^^* Pop up a few forcefields to protect it and a few towers

[TechSY730]

Engineers take 3x damage while on hostile planets. Trying to setup a base with a unit of that fragility would be a fustrating excersize. At the same time, something of reasonable durability probably shouldn't be able to repair things as easily as engineers can (that is why mobile repairers were OP back in the 3.0 days). That is what mobile builders provide. A way to get a mobile constructor, without having to deal with the fragility of a mobile assister (which covers both construction assist and repair) that the engineers have for the sake of balance.

EDIT: Maybe allow engineers to construct in addition to mobile builders, if you want to take the risk? IDK. Sounds risky to the balance of the game, but it might work.

[Minotaar]

EDIT: Maybe allow engineers to construct in addition to mobile builders, if you want to take the risk? IDK. Sounds risky to the balance of the game, but it might work.

Not as long as there are engineers with cloaking and teleportation. 

[Mánagarmr]

Well, only the mark threes have cloak and teleportation, so...I'd rather keep it as it is. But I agree that from a logical standpoint, it'd make more sense with engineers just being builders straight off.

[Hearteater]

I don't have a problem with mobile builders.  I just wish there were more of a point to building a beach head on an enemy system.

[Wanderer]

On this note, I've been debating a new building proposal. 

Basically, it stems from the fact that after picketing a decent number of systems, you're forced to go to Scout III fleetships if you want to continue scouting the universe, even if you've nerfed every planet you can see.

What I'd like to see is the ability to build a 'scout relay' building.  Basically, something that could replace your picketed scout fleetship and release it back to normal duty.  This would require getting a mobile builder into the system and setting up something the equivalent of a scout I fighter that can't move.  It would basically just handle scout duties and hide under its cloak.  Oh, and these DON'T need supply, by their very nature.

Make it 5 minutes to build or something equivalently rediculous so you can only place it on nerfed planets/in protected buildspace, and you'll remove the majority of the cheese you could do.

I just want my scouts back and I DON'T want to have to pay 2,250 K for another cap of them if I want to keep pickets up in the galaxy.

Opinions?  I mention it here because usually my Engineers are very busy and don't have time to take a trip to the outer reaches of nowhere, but those dedicated builders are more then welcome to take a flight.  Of course, with 5 minute build times they might need Engis anyway but that's another story.  A small protection fleet could work equivalently well.

[Hearteater]

Sounds good, especially if the energy cost is low.  Picketing with Scout II and especially Scout IIIs is brutal.  Call it a Recon Station/Platform maybe?

[Eternaly_Lost]

I rather like that idea as well. Although rather then builders, why don't we have the scout star ships deploy into them like a colony ship does?