Military command station discussion

[Lancefighter]

Currently ,military commandstations fire translocating shots. This is absolutely amazing for defending a point - They reduce the amount of ships currently engaging your defenses.

There is just one minor problem - If I am defending against a point, then translocators are not as useful. Translocating ships across the entire map, just for them to leave because you just shot them exactly where they wanted to go, then there is an issue.

So, to recap:
Good use - Defending an advanced factory. Defending a single wormhole.
Bad use - Defending multiple targets in a system(multiple wormholes. multiple fabricators).

I feel in their 'bad use', they are VERY odd to use. THey provide global damage buff, and area tachyons. These are all ALWAYS useful.

However, in one small situation.. they are incredibly counterproductive.

I believe the only real solution I can think of is a 'translocator rally point' The idea being that I can force units to be ported back into the middle of my defenses, if I wanted. That, or being able to toggle if I want translocator shots to translocate via ctrls.

[chemical_art]

I think it is intentional.

If you want to lock down a system globally you use the logistic command station. If you want to lock down a single point, whether it be a wormhole or a factory, then you use the military. Telling where to put the translocation would both be hard to balance since you can put it in the middle of a tractor turret blob near your defenses, and reduce the "anti blobing" effect they perform.

[TechSY730]

You could do a compromise. Increase the chance of the unit being sent in the direction and distance to the redirector rally point set. Or more precisely, skew the distribution of direction to and distance to teleport the units to be closer to that needed to teleport it right to the point (selecting one at random if there are multiple at that planet). If that would be a nightmare to code, and approximation of that distribution can be made; skew the distribution of chance to teleport to a point to be higher the point (again, selecting one at random if there are multiple)

This allows some guidance, but still keeps some unpredictability and keeps some "anti-blobbing" ability.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I'm kind of with Chemical Art to be honest. By the sound of it, the Military Command Station has its niche, and the Logistical one already has its own niche. Screwing with that will possibly screw up that kind of uniqueness, even if the Military one as it is doesn't really fit in how you play. If you give the military station a 'translocate stuff to here' point or even a guidance point, suddenly, it's a whole lot better at protecting a whole planet rather than just one key point.

[doctorfrog]

When I choose and observe the effects of the military command station on the enemy, I tend to feel pretty good. It feels like I'm trolling the enemy. If any changes occur to the MCC, I hope that feeling of cheating the enemy out of an easy sack remains.

[Toranth]

Bad use - Defending multiple targets in a system(multiple wormholes. multiple fabricators).

<snip>

I believe the only real solution I can think of is a 'translocator rally point' The idea being that I can force units to be ported back into the middle of my defenses, if I wanted. That, or being able to toggle if I want translocator shots to translocate via ctrls.

It's actually worse than that.  If you use FRD to defend your systems, translocating shots cause your ships to chase their chosen target all the way across the map.  This means they spend significant time NOT doing useful things, like killing the ships attacking your command station.

Generally the only time I'll use Military Command Stations is when I can stick it away from my primary combat zone.  Otherwise, I find myself either microing every way, or turning off FRD and microing all the time.

I'd really love to have a non-translocating Military Station.  In fact, I'd prefer one that didn't shoot to what we have now.

[Kahuna]

Bad use - Defending multiple targets in a system(multiple wormholes. multiple fabricators).

<snip>

I believe the only real solution I can think of is a 'translocator rally point' The idea being that I can force units to be ported back into the middle of my defenses, if I wanted. That, or being able to toggle if I want translocator shots to translocate via ctrls.

It's actually worse than that.  If you use FRD to defend your systems, translocating shots cause your ships to chase their chosen target all the way across the map.

Don't do that then?

I find myself either microing every way, or turning off FRD and microing all the time.

All I have to do is select all ships and X+Right Click behind my turrets once in a while.

[Kahuna]

Bad use - Defending multiple targets in a system(multiple wormholes. multiple fabricators).

When waves get big enough (exos..) nothing can defend multiple objects. Pick the most important object and focus on that.

[Lancefighter]

hm, we seem to be in two parties. One party says "translocation is usually not good", and the other party says "plan your defense better".

However, the turnout for this discussion doesnt seem as large as I expected - Is the general consensus really "logistics stations are better at defense"?

If I'm not mistaken, there was a time when logistics stations were the goto command station for EVERYTHING (well everything that wasnt completely in the backwater of nowheresville). As much as speedboosting from logistics stations is nice and all, thats not really a defensive item. Against a spire response fleet, I want the munitions boosting. It is a complete not and option to have something else there. The translocation just makes this difficult to properly use, I feel, because of the way it scatters units all over the map.

Sure, you could say "well, duh, just park your flagships there". Sorry, my flagships are neither strong enough for munitions boosting nor available. My flagships are out doing useful things, like munitions boosting my spire fleet.

[orzelek]

In my current game I'm trying to toy with MC Mk I for defense - mainly focusing on defending WH leading further into my territory.

And while it seems useful it's translocation gets annoying especially after attack with not many attackers left. That attackers are not dangerous for station and anything else but even fortress shots have trouble hitting them since when enemies translocate shots fired at them tend to disappear.

Ideal solution would be to have some way of toggling translocation on MC. I'm not sure how difficult that would be. Maybe toggle if it fires or not in some way.

It's attack boost is useful (especially since logistic station seems to fail to slow exos for me) so I think it has it's use on defense.

Maybe we could give slowing down of enemy ships effect to MC to make it defensive role better and then add different bonus for logistics.

[Kahuna]

And while it seems useful it's translocation gets annoying especially after attack with not many attackers left. That attackers are not dangerous for station and anything else but even fortress shots have trouble hitting them since when enemies translocate shots fired at them tend to disappear.

You could just leave them there and manually rebuild the harvesters.

It's attack boost is useful (especially since logistic station seems to fail to slow exos for me) so I think it has it's use on defense.

MarkII increases the damage of your turrets by 50% ---> Waves will be stopped faster.
If I've understood correctly Exo wave has a "leader" which all other ships follow. Everyone moves with the same speed as this leader. If the leader is immune to gravitational effects then all ships will be. Destroy the leader and the other ships will lose their GImmunity.

Maybe we could give slowing down of enemy ships effect to MC to make it defensive role better and then add different bonus for logistics.

Military Command Station is already perfect for defense. MarkII increases the damage of your turrets by 50% and while it's translocating AI ships Snipers and Spider Turrets will destroy them.
Unless you have Munitions Boosters as your bonus ships Military Command Station is always better for defense than Logistics. Gravitational Turrets can do the slowing. The only down side of Military CS is that you "have" to unlock MarkIIs which cost 4k Knowledge.

[chemical_art]

Indeed there are two schools about whether you like or hate translocations it seems. The defensive structure for logistic stations is different then military stations.

I suggested logistic stations if you wanted to lock down a system, but personally I always the military station for defense, because I use gravity turrets. Stragglers for military stations can be worn down with sniper turrets, and if you combine military stations with spider turrets you get an even more devastating punch of punching out enemy engines and then translocating them, taking them out of the fight till enemy cleanup. 20% attack bonus for the mk I is nice, and with the mk II the station translocates on paper translocates twice as much with over twice the attack bonus.

[Diazo]

Interesting to see peoples thoughts.

My breakdown is the Military Station is a 'wall' that the AI bashes its head against, combined with turrets, including some sniper, I can pretty much ignore the system and be off doing stuff with my fleet.

Yes, I have stragglers but the turrets kill them eventually.

Logistics on the other hand are like mud. They don't actually stop the AI, they just slow it down. They are much weaker then military stations when left alone, but if you turn your attention to a system with a logistics station and micro, logistics are much more powerful as the slow enables you to pick apart an AI wave.

Which is why I like Military Commands as they are now, the translocating shots vastly increase the survivability of them, which is what I want as my attention is off in another system somewhere and it is on its own.

D.

[orzelek]

I will try to shell out the K to take Mk II MC. If Mk I is apparently bad why it exists?

As for exos and their leaders - is logistical station slow down a gravity effect? Also that exo I looked at more closely had all units with "group speed at 36" so none of them looked to be a leader.

There is also one important diff between logistical and military - not everything can get translocated. Spire maws or hybrids rip you a new one vs military station. Not sure if 20% boost of Mk I is better than 50% of speed from logistical one.

[Kahuna]

Not sure if 20% boost of Mk I is better than 50% of speed from logistical one.

As I said^^ if you're going to use Military CSs you're gonna wanna unlock MarkIIs if you don't have Munitions Boosters available.