Author Topic: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote  (Read 5821 times)

Offline Wingflier

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Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« on: December 06, 2010, 06:08:03 am »
The experimental Core Shields idea was not the most well-received mechanic Arcen has ever done, but it has presented a unique opportunity in bringing to light several fundamental issues with the game.  One of those issues are people's common hesitations to use ARS unlocks.  From what I've gathered, people simply find too many of the bonus ships to be "useless", or at least not worth going out of a player's way to find.  Conversely, some bonus ship classes are so powerful that players can basically perform a multi-planet start and win the game with no problems.  As Chris has said before, whether or not the "useless" ships deserve that treatment is irrelevant; player perspective is ultimately what will cause ARS planets to be a factor in the game or not.

The reason I made this thread was to get community opinions on each of the individual ARS ships.  I will list out every ship, and I want you to copy the list and declare each ship as either "balanced, underpowered, or overpowered".  A brief explanation of your decision would also be nice (though if you choose the balanced option, it probably explains itself).  You don't have to review EVERY ship, just review the ships you feel comfortable reviewing.  Once enough people vote, I will attempt to "tally the votes" and update this entire thread.

My opinion is that, if we can come to a community consensus on the ARS bonus ships, as well as implementing the Knowledge Cost changes presented in this thread(http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,7810.0.html), ARS unlocks will become an attractive option again.

Thank you for voting!

AI War Base Game Unlocks

Bulletproof Fighters -

Tachyon MicroFighters -

Raiders -

Parasites - Currently being discussed.

Vampire Claws -

Raptors -

Snipers -

Space Tanks -

Electric Shuttles -

Vorticular Cutlasses -

Infiltrators -

Eye Bots -

Spiders -

Laser Gatlings -

Autocannon Minipods -

Deflector Drones -

Space Planes - 

EtherJet Tractors -

Force Field Bearers - 

Armor Ships -

Anti-Armor Ships -

MLRS -

Munitions Boosters -

Teleport Raiders -

Teleport Battle Stations - 

Zenith Remnant Unlocks

Zenith Bombardment Ships -

Zenith AutoBombs -

Grenade Launchers -

Zenith Electric Bombers -

Sentinel Frigates -

Zenith Mirrors -

Zenith Paralyzers - 

Shield Boosters -

Zenith Beam Frigates -

Zenith Chameleons -

Zenith Polarizers -

Zenith Viral Shredders -

Impulse Reaction Emitters -

Acid Sprayers -

Children of Neinzul Unlocks


Neinzul Youngling Commando -

Neinzul Youngling Tiger -

Neinzul Youngling Vulture -

Neinzul Youngling Weasel -

Neinzul Youngling Mimic -

----

If I missed any bonus ship or have any outdated information, please let me know.  Once again, thank you for voting.
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Offline superking

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 07:52:11 am »
AI War Base Game Unlocks

Bulletproof Fighters - Balanaced. Could be more interesting (more armour, less speed, weaker weapon, 100 shipcap)

Tachyon MicroFighters - Underpowered.

Raiders - Underpowered (too expensive @ 300 crystal 100 metal)

Parasites - Currently being discussed. Underpowered (v fragile. only parasites with 'tagging for reclamation' are actually powerful/OP)

Vampire Claws - Balanced/Underpowered (v weak at lower MK, strong at high MK)

Raptors - Underpowered (too expensive, also really need a higher retreat distance)

Snipers - Underpowered (terrible hp/shipcap, medicore damage shipcap, little use in players hands.)

Space Tanks - Underpowered (currently lack character & function as slower, more fragile bomber)

Electric Shuttles - Balanced.

Vorticular Cutlasses - Underpowered (Essentially a slow seige unit that cannot attack structures or starships.)

Infiltrators - Dont know.

Eye Bots - Balanced.

Spiders - Dont know.

Laser Gatlings - Underpowered (new armour mechanics & rapid fire multi projectile turrets & gaurdians, and AI eyes, do not favour swarm units. weak rapid fire weapon hurt by new armour mechanics)

Autocannon Minipods - Underpowered (very obviously.)

Deflector Drones - Dont know, suspect underpowered. (would be good with retreat distance.)

Space Planes -  Balanced.

EtherJet Tractors - Underpowered. (new armour mechanics & rapid fire multi projectile turrets & gaurdians, and AI eyes, do not favour swarm units. extremely weak attack completely deflected by most armour. ineffective vs the armor of harvesters.)

Force Field Bearers - Balanced/Overpowered (these seem extremely good.)

Armor Ships - Overpowered (too much health & armour for extremely low cost)

Anti-Armor Ships - Balanced.

MLRS - Balanced.

Munitions Boosters - Underpowered (too fragile @ 600 armour.)

Teleport Raiders - Underpowered (very weak attack completely deflected by armour = very low dps/shipcap. does not function as raider. effective against polycrystal ONLY. new armour mechanics & rapid fire multi projectile turrets & gaurdians, and AI eyes, do not favour swarm units. imo, all minor electric very much including teleport raider needs v. high armour peircing & the ability to attack structures.)

Teleport Battle Stations -  Balanced/Underpowered (much weaker than 3.0 because it used to attack from close up and ignore shields, now armour significantly reduces the damage of their multi-shot attack (maximises effect of armour. imo, all minor electric very much including teleport raider battlestation v. high armour peircing & the ability to attack structures.)

Zenith Remnant Unlocks

Zenith Bombardment Ships - Balanced/Underpowered (terrible DPS shipcap/no bonuses reduce usefulness. imo, bonus vs heavy, ultraheavy, structual & artillery would work nice)

Zenith AutoBombs - Balanced/Underpowered (affected badly by armour change. Imo remove polycrystal bonus and give their attack a degree of armour peircing. Increase costs slightly to compensate for armour peircing & new much stronger economy)

Grenade Launchers - Balanced/Overpowered (ridiculously resilient @ 80K HP & 4000 armour)

Zenith Electric Bombers - Underpowered (specialisation vs polycrystal heavily limits usefulness. suggest rethink in direct of structures, heavy, ultraheavy, artillery)

Sentinel Frigates - Underpowered (v low DPS/shipcap & lack of specialisation limits usefulness. suggest bonus damages toward swarm/ultralight/light/medium/polycrystal to make them better at their role of sentinels (keeping backwater planets clear of stray raiders)

Zenith Mirrors - V. Underpowered (now extremely fragile & ineffective, crippled by loss of 3.0 shield mechanic. need much more hp/armour)

Zenith Paralyzers - Balanced/Underpowered (very fragile)

Armour Boosters - Overpowered (used in groups of 3+, they have effective 9000 armour each making them almost unkillable. armour boosting is MUCH more useful than shield boosting was.)

Zenith Beam Frigates - Underpowered (lack of specialisation, imo needs damage bonus vs swarms, ultralight & light since turret armour type is now v rare..)

Zenith Chameleons - Underpowered (much weaker bomber with ability to cloak while stationary = v hard to find application for, suggest rethink of unit role)

Zenith Polarizers - Balanced/Underpowered (Does less damage to targets with 2000 armour than fighter of corresponding MK. good resilience at low MK.. at high MK is completely outclassed by fighter.)

Zenith Viral Shredders - Balanced

Impulse Reaction Emitters - Dont Know.

Acid Sprayers - Dont Know.


Children of Neinzul Unlocks


Neinzul Youngling Commando - Dont know, strongly suspect Underpowered.

Neinzul Youngling Tiger - Dont know, strongly suspect Underpowered.

Neinzul Youngling Vulture - Underpowered. (MK I vulture inflicts 320 damage/shot to an MK I bomber on 20% HP. Useless and very expensive @ 50/50.)

Neinzul Youngling Weasel - Dont know, strongly suspect Underpowered.

Neinzul Youngling Mimic - Dont know, strongly suspect Underpowered.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 08:51:29 am by superking »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 08:38:10 am »
I've been meaning to start something like this myself, just still working on an overall approach, but thanks :)

One of the challenges I'm facing with balancing a lot of these is widely varying input from players on many specific types.  But I won't go into details there until we get a few more chime-ins here.

Did want to add, though:
Quote
Neinzul Youngling Mimic - Dont know, strongly suspect Underpowered.
We actually implemented the Nanoswam instead of the Mimic.  Initially it was way OP, then it was ok or seemed to be, but recently it was pretty UP so I buffed them quite a bit.  Basically in addition to their parasite damage they now do paralysis, engine damage, and armor rotting ;)  They also affect somewhat more targets when blowing up, now.  Anyway, I think they now at least qualify as "amusing" ;)
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Offline superking

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 08:48:20 am »
yeah I havnt tried them since you made that change, qualifying the 'Dont know'.. and besides the vulture I havnt personally commanded neinzul ships. my strongly suspect underpowered is product of how expensive they are in respect to how much they acheive before they die compared to a ship that does not degrade. In general, I dont like using any of them.

Offline Suzera

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 10:24:23 am »
AI War Base Game Unlocks

Bulletproof Fighters - Fighters are good and these are fighters+

Tachyon MicroFighters - Fighters than can't fulfill fighter role. AP too low. Detection does not make up for being half as strong per ship cap as fighters

Raiders - Too expensive for their weak durability unless you have FFBs

Parasites - Currently being discussed. Leech starship mk1 already reclaims just fine so they're redundant and there's no reason to get higher mk leech starships EITHER.

Vampire Claws - Too weak on higher difficulties due to more focused fire. Healing becomes less power as incoming damage rate increases. More fine on lower difficulties.

Raptors - Too flimsy. Kiting is useless when you already blow up almost everything in seconds with a durable fleet blob

Snipers - Haven't used since change. Might be ok

Space Tanks - Fighters+Bombers, second strongest bonus ship behind FFBs. Scale better than any ship in the game with mk except FFBs.

Electric Shuttles - Good for high difficulty defense. AI ships do not bunch up enough to make them all that useful on offense anymore thanks to guardians. Not on my starting pick list because lightning turrets are usually enough. If I get Elec shuttles as an ARS drop it's one of the few times I get excited though, along with getting any of the other top ship picks. Powerful for the AI on defense due to the fact that human ships stick so closely together.

Vorticular Cutlasses - Too flimsy. Can't destroy AI Eyes. Health scales very poorly with mk.

Infiltrators - Haven't used much. Not my personal cup of tea but theoretically seem at least ok since they fire through force fields. Personally, I think it's mostly an AI only ship due to turret bonus.

Eye Bots - Ok unit. Not powerful per ship cap with the removal of AI turrets, but at least extremely cheap in both build and power and fires through FFs with reasonable raw damage. Mostly an AI only ship though due to turret damage again.

Spiders - Engine damage might be ok in defense in some cases (counterwarps), but on offense you're usually vaporizing everything in seconds.

Laser Gatlings - Haven't used much due to low durability. Theoretically, I think they are kind of near to being a potential pick.

Autocannon Minipods - Terrible. Just terrible. They don't really seem to do anything even as good as bad. Worst ship.

Deflector Drones - Too flimsy compared to triangles. Otherwise decent to good.

Space Planes -  Too high of a power cost to use effectively at most times since they have a high ship cap. Good ship otherwise though.

EtherJet Tractors - Best gimmick ship, and one of the best ships. Tractor beaming things into turrets is both fun AND effective. Being relatively cheap means it is ok to lose a few. Good for defense as backup tractor turrets or dragging counterpost waves to your defense planet too. Energy cost is kind of high, but has worthwhile effectiveness anyway. Candidate for spots #5 and #6 with anti-armor

Force Field Bearers -  Current godship. Overlapping forcefields and an MRS means never losing ships except to ion cannons. Haven't used since the recent health change, but I imagine they are still #1. Only counter to autobombs, so if you don't take these and the AI gets autobombs, it is like moving the difficulty up by 1. These should really just be a regular default start ship, but cost a lot more knowledge (like 3000 mk1/6000 mk2/9000 mk3, they're that good and I would still do it right now at times) and start entirely locked since they are so unique, so irreplaceable, and so necessary to counter specific units.

Armor Ships - Mostly AI only due to turret bonus. Things do, however, like to shoot them and do very little damage instead of shooting other more valuable targets, particularly missile frigates since artillery and ultraheavy are both bomber bonuses, so somewhat useful as an mmo style tank.

Anti-Armor Ships - Combined with FFBs, they are insane damage output against anything. Without FFBs they blow up too fast. Their fearsome damage (wormhole guard posts aren't so bad to blow up with them anymore) make them a candidate for spots #5 and 6 though with Etherjets.

MLRS - Missile frigates+=2, pick #3 for me behind space tanks

Munitions Boosters - Poor man's flagships. Blow up too easy to want to upgrade with knowledge. Mk 1 essentially just saves the knowledge of upgrading flagships, but that only applies if you start with them instead of a better ship, which I usually do and use flagships instead. Upgrading is less worthwhile than just going down the flagship line.

Teleport Raiders - Too flimsy for attacking, and slightly worse than fighters for home defense. Can't group move with the fleet without intensive micro. Cheap cost keeps them useful however.

Teleport Battle Stations -  Too flimsy for their cost and too flimsy to use on offense effectively. Can barely scratch mk3+ bombers (though they're great vs mk 1) and everything else of any danger pops them really quickly. Hampered by low ship cap. They are useful as an annoyance defense if the AI gets any of the weak-but-annoying ships like raptors or minipods, but otherwise not anything to spend knowledge on or get excited about, even if your game is one of the 10% that has this marginal value.

Zenith Remnant Unlocks

Zenith Bombardment Ships - Too weak for me, but does have a niche use. Raptors should be at least this good, but I think these could use a bit of a buff as well.

Zenith AutoBombs - Both godly and super weak at the same time, depending

Grenade Launchers - Haven't tried since health update. It's mainly why I never used them much before.

Zenith Electric Bombers - Worse than bombers per ship cap.

Sentinel Frigates - Might be ok. Not my personal strategy. Some people like the advanced warp detection

Zenith Mirrors - Need to be cheaper. They should be like anti-ship only autobombs than you can keep with your fleet.

Zenith Paralyzers -  One of the top 5 units. Mk1 is all that is necessary though. Could use a ship cap being cut in half and health multiplied by 5. Kinda flimsy, but cheapness, in addition to being as good as FFBs at times, makes them a main fleet take-along.

Shield Boosters - They improve the survivability of the most survivable units, and do nothing to help other expensive units that you don't want blown up first survive, like cruisers. Maybe it should add a flat armor amount to everything instead of multiplying like attack boosts. Armor ships are better at protecting because armor ships are ultra-heavy and keep bomber fire away from the more fragile yet still expensive frigates at the moment, so armor boosters are automatically a participation award level prize

Zenith Beam Frigates - A bit underpowered in my opinion for human use. They are FEARSOME if the AI gets them. This is the main reason to pick them, so the AI doesn't. That turret bonus is killer. Unfortunately, this picking strategy doesn't really impact ARSes since ARSes are random. I'd also rather pick autobombs to make the AI not get them instead if I am not picking FFBs or some other actually awesome ship.

Zenith Chameleons -  Candidate for second worst ship in the game. Only better than autocannon minipods, and only because they can actually hurt FFs a little. Far far far worse than bombers. If they were as good as bombers and had cloak-while-moving they would jump to near the top of the list as AI Eye killers, and a second bomber ship. They would be on par or better than space tanks in my pick list.

Zenith Polarizers - They can blow up bombers. Bombers are dangerous. This makes them at least ok. I still don't use them much though because they aren't as versatile as fighters and many other ship picks.

Zenith Viral Shredders - On lower difficulties these are fine, but they die too quickly to replicate effectively on higher difficulties due to more focused fire, a similar problem as vampires. Poor health scaling means teching up is not very useful.

Impulse Reaction Emitters - Blow up starships ok, and some other stuff. Not as versatile as bombers so again not used as much.

Acid Sprayers - Significantly weaker than fighters per ship cap. Less versatile too. Space tanks and teleraiders are better picks against polycrystal and neutron isn't too widespread, so this end up being near the bottom of the unlocking order.

Children of Neinzul Unlocks

I never use these because of the attrition damage being too great.  I can see their potential use though if you're up to the micromanagement challenge.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 10:38:47 am by Suzera »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 10:33:00 am »
This is extremely helpful info, thanks :)

Obviously need more folks to weigh in to help sift out personal biases, but this is great.
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Offline ShdNx

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 10:37:15 am »
You could also add the Light of the Spire ships to the list. Nice initiation anyway!

AI War Base Game Unlocks

Bulletproof Fighters - Looks balanced, though I don't really have a lot of experience with them. Used them once I think.

Tachyon MicroFighters - Underpowered. Emitting tachyon beams is not that big of a bonus (at least, I think), and apart from that, they're very weak.

Raptors - Balanced. I'm actually quite keen on them!

Snipers - Underpowered. You must be kidding, ship cap of 7?!

Space Tanks - Balanced. Personally I like fast units more, but they seem to be okay.

Electric Shuttles - They are very strong in the hands of the AI, but not really effective in the player's hands (because human-controlled ships tend to do more concentrated attacks). Perhaps a major speed boost for them while held by human players would actually turn them useful?

Vorticular Cutlasses - Slightly underpowered. In the hands of the AI they're absolutely devastating, but they're not nearly as good on the side of the human players, because of their low speed and ship cap. A minor boost to these attributes would do good I think.

Laser Gatlings - Balanced.

Autocannon Minipods - Very underpowered. They are devastating in huge swarms that the AI has, capable of tearing apart any kind of defense the player might come up with, but are really pathetic otherwise. Need serious redesign!

Zenith Remnant Unlocks

Zenith Electric Bombers - Absolutely overpowered for the AI to have, but low ship cap makes me feel that it's absolutely not worth to choose it (not to mention to unlock higher marks).

Sentinel Frigates - Same story as with Z Electric Bombers.

Zenith Mirrors - Feel underpowered. Perhaps give a constant multiplier to the damage reflected?

Zenith Paralyzers - Balanced.

Children of Neinzul Unlocks

Neinzul Youngling Commando - Haven't tried them yet, but they look very underpowered by their stats. What's their purpose?

Neinzul Youngling Tiger - Balanced. I absolutely love them, one of my favorite ships, but can be quite tricky to use correctly.

Neinzul Youngling Mimic Nanoswarm - Balanced, but they're quite silly. They automatically attack ships that are already marked for reclamation, making them mostly useless in attacks.

Offline Suzera

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 10:45:12 am »
Updated armor ship and lightning shuttle a bit in my post. I would love to see more of the ships be more on par with things like space tanks, bulletproof fighters or MRLS though.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 10:47:01 am »
One thing on the bullet-proofs: looking at the stats, they seem at least roughly 50% weaker than a fighter attack-power wise due to the slower reload rate, not to mention lower dps-at-cap due to the smaller ship cap.

But this isn't a problem?  Or am I just misreading the stats I wrote myself? ;)
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Offline Suzera

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 11:06:24 am »
It could be I am misreading stats. I thought they were identical but immune to shell.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 11:14:55 am »
Yes, and also immune to instakill.  Here's the actual logic used to modify the fighter stats for the bulletproof versions:

Code: [Select]
                        case ShipType.Bulletproof:
                            this.Bulletproof = true;
                            this.ImmuneToBeingInstaKilled = true;
                            this.LoadedDescriptionType = ForegroundObjectType.BulletproofFighter;
                            this.MetalCost *= 2;
                            this.CrystalCost = ( (FInt)this.CrystalCost * FInt.FromParts( 0, 500 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.AttackRechargeSeconds = ( (FInt)this.AttackRechargeSeconds * FInt.FromParts( 1, 50 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.AttackRange = ( (FInt)this.AttackRange * FInt.FromParts( 1, 50 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.MaxHealth = ( (FInt)this.MaxHealth * FInt.FromParts( 1, 100 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.ArmorRating = ( (FInt)this.ArmorRating * FInt.FromParts( 0, 800 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.EngineHealth = ( (FInt)this.EngineHealth * FInt.FromParts( 1, 500 ) ).ToInt();
                            this.ShipCapMultiplier = FInt.FromParts( 0, 900 );
                            break;

I've also been planning to fold the microfighters in as another branch-off of fighters to keep their balance close together (which is why bulletproofs were folded in some months ago); judging by feedback here that would be a good idea ;)
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 11:23:17 am »
I can't agree to the Sniper issue really. Snipers (full cap of Mk I-III) more or less instapops Hybrids and Guardians. They are very useful to keep among your Siege Starships.

That being said, I would NOT complain if they had more hitpoints (they are made of wet paper) and a larger ship cap. It would not make them overpowered, but it would increase their power compared to others. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the ship itself though.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 11:49:58 am by Moonshine Fox »
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Offline Suzera

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 11:29:21 am »
They're actually a tiny bit better than clones (more health and that oh so tiny bit of armor), and then immune to shell and instakill looking at the stats export spreadsheet. I can't verify in game at the moment though since I'm at work, and ship caps largely are absent in the spreadsheet. If I remember that got changed a dozen patches (about a month?) ago when fighters got their raw damage upped and bonuses reduced. Immune to instakill would be much better for bombers though. Fighters are cheap enough to replace so it's not so big an issue there. I'd almost rather the fighters NOT be immune to instakill so they soak ion cannon shots, but it's not so big a problem that I won't take a second shipcap of fighters. :) I like the triangles+ approach that bulletproofs, space tanks and MRLS have though for at least a balance starting point for things that aren't gimmicks like Etherjets, FFBs, Parasites, Autobombs, Paralyzers, Maws and Mirrors. It would help make ARS seem more valueable, and might lead to saving knowledge for them instead of just taking all triangles immediately when the game starts.

Quote from: Moonshine Fox
That being said, I would NOT complain if they had more hitpoints (they are made of wet paper) and a larger ship cap. It would not make them overpowered, but it would increase their power compared to others. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the ship itself thoug
As far is this game is concerned, ship cap is part of the ship itself. It is a very critical central stat, just as much as HP, armor, amount of speed below frigates (currently 22), damage and refire rate. Attack range and high speed are pretty underpowered for human units in my opinion though, except for with Autobombs, turrets, Etherjets, AI Eye killers and scouts. Everything else only really needs to go as fast as missile frigates and be able to shoot 20-30 fleet ship lengths so you can hit things from either edge of the blob, which is about how far a fighter fires.

If I had to make a theory guess, I would peg snipers as underpowered, but less underpowered than most (taking ship cap into account as a ship stat, because it really is). A LOT of ships really need to be brought up to at least bulletproof levels of usefulness. I put it at above average, but still below good usefulness threshold, to where it is a last resortish ship.

Edit: Bulletproofs have more engine health too. They cost a bit more than regular fighters, and again pile heavily onto metal like all the other good ships. Still worth it though, but still only around pick #7. I would certainly consider picking fighter clones that cloak-detect if they weren't more expensive than fighters. Tachyon drones are so limited, and the mk 1s could replace those, be a home defense, and the mk 2 and 3s could go with the fleet in place of regular fighters. Especially if FFBs and space tanks were toned down to bulletproof levels.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:57:56 pm by Suzera »

Offline NickAragua

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Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 11:44:57 am »
Generally speaking, I almost always go after an ARS unless it's *really* out of the way. Even if the unlock isn't that great, extra ships are extra ships, and the extra 3k knowledge isn't too bad, either. I haven't seen or used any CoN ships, so I can't comment on them.

AI War Base Game Unlocks

Bulletproof Fighters - Ok.

Tachyon MicroFighters - Every time I've seen them in AI hands, they sucked horribly. I can't imagine they'd be much better in my hands. Thumbs down.

Raiders - Never used.

Parasites - Yes please.

Vampire Claws - Never used.

Raptors - Decent on defense, able to respond quickly to hot spots due to their speed.

Snipers - Ok.

Space Tanks - Ok as long as you can accept that these will basically act as turrets.

Electric Shuttles - Ok. Back in the old days, these used to be pure murder, now I guess I'd park them around a wormhole or something. Not so great.

Vorticular Cutlasses - No idea.

Infiltrators - Never used.

Eye Bots - Good to send along with my raid starships.

Spiders - Good for defense or with my attack group.

Laser Gatlings - Ok, but underwhelming like other swarming ships.

Autocannon Minipods - Ok. Very plucky, but only useful for cannon fodder.

Deflector Drones - Useful on paper.

Space Planes - Pretty good on defense due to low cost and high speed.

EtherJet Tractors - Never used.

Force Field Bearers - Seems useful on paper.

Armor Ships - Good against all those annoying little swarmer ships.

Anti-Armor Ships - Excellent.

MLRS - Ok.

Munitions Boosters - Seems useful on paper.

Teleport Raiders - Never used.

Teleport Battle Stations - Superb on defense against light targets.

Zenith Remnant Unlocks

Zenith Bombardment Ships - Super long range + high damage = these go with my attack force

Zenith AutoBombs - Never used.

Grenade Launchers - Never used.

Zenith Electric Bombers - Ok. Extremely slow, damage not that great.

Sentinel Frigates - Super long range + decent damage = these go with my attack force.

Zenith Mirrors - Pretty reasonable.

Zenith Paralyzers - Good for the main attack force.

Shield Boosters - Yes please.

Zenith Beam Frigates - Yes please.

Zenith Chameleons - Never used.

Zenith Polarizers - Never used.

Zenith Viral Shredders - Never used.

Impulse Reaction Emitters - Seems reasonable vs bulky fleet ships.

Acid Sprayers - At the very least, useful against those 1600 bomber waves.

Offline Suzera

  • Full Member Mark III
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  • Posts: 220
Re: Making All ARS Unlocks Attractive - Come Vote
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 11:51:43 am »
I really don't understand the space tank hate. Being able to counter two triangles as well as the actual triangles counter (counters bombers and frigates and thus has far more practical value that anything else that only counters 1), as well as wrecking force fields, AI Eyes, Ion cannons and many other things is more than any ship besides FFBs get. I mean, I'm technically ok with having one ship that kills most of the really nasty things in one package that the AI then doesn't get to get and then I get weaker but still good bonuses in the field (with some balancing to make them better than triangles), but I still don't understand the space tank hate when it still moves at missile frigate speed.

Edit: Space tanks: better than Bomber clones (much more dps makes up for the 20% lost health) that can blow up bombers and not just frigates. If you make them even better, you're crazy. I'll take it, but you're crazy!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:54:06 pm by Suzera »