Author Topic: Is there a possibility of a new AI War expansion anytime soon? And Why Not?  (Read 7995 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Do you, Arcen, plan to add mod support for galaxy generation?
I'm hoping to make that script-based, yes, even for the "stock" types. We'll see if that works out :)
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Offline Elestan

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Remains/Cleanup Drones./Reprisal
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 02:42:19 PM »
I mentioned Cleanup Drones earlier in the thread; they seem like a relic of a bygone age.  If the AI never rebuilds anything, then AI structures probably should not leave remains at all.

That leaves Cleanup Drones as a solution in search of a problem.  Taking them out would be one option.  As an alternative, perhaps they could play in the salvage mechanics:  When ships die near a Cleanup Drone, the player could receive salvage metal, and any AI Reprisal contribution could be reduced or eliminated.

Although, frankly, the Reprisal mechanic never really made sense to me; it seems like it might have been added out of a quest to "balance" human salvage with an AI-counterpart.  But I don't think such things are needed; there are plenty of other ways to make the AI harder.  And the gameplay effect is to give the player an extra kick when they've already suffered a loss, which (for me) isn't particularly fun.  Plus, storywise, the AI is making its ships in another galaxy, so some extra scrap metal near the human player shouldn't affect its production anyway.  I'd prefer for Reprisal to be an option, so that I don't have to use it.

Offline tadrinth

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Agree that cleanup drones aren't adding much.  Mines are pretty uncommon and I'm not sure how the AI ever repairs them from remains. 

The salvage + reprisal mechanics are intended to solve two problems at once.  The first is that when you lose a fleet, it can take a very long time to rebuild all those ships, because your metal cap doesn't really keep pace with the total cost of your fleet. 

The second is that losing a fleet didn't feel particularly dangerous.  The usual response was to put time to +10 and wait until your fleet was back, then throw it back into the grinder. 

The reprisal + salvage mechanic ensures that when you lose a fleet, you're now in danger because of it, but if you survive, your economy gets a boost that allows you to refleet faster. 

Admittedly, doesn't feel great that the AI kicks you when you're down, but I tend to reload after stupid fleet losses.

If you could disable reprisals, that option would probably also have to disable salvage. 


The salvage+reprisal mechanics do have some rough edges, certainly.  I'm working on yet another attempt at a Neinzul themed expansion, so I have full caps of Enclave + NCC starships.  I see reprisal waves *just* from the drone spam.  Unfortunately, the Neinzul Youngster only sends younglings as reprisal waves, which means they don't actually give me any salvage, they just suck.  The other AI just happened to unlock Youngling Fireflies, too, and it's very fond of Firefly waves, so I've gotten hardly any salvage this game, even using my homeworld as a whipping boy all game. 

Offline Elestan

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The second is that losing a fleet didn't feel particularly dangerous.  The usual response was to put time to +10 and wait until your fleet was back, then throw it back into the grinder.

I would prefer to address this with AI behavior.  If losing the fleet weakened the players' defenses, the threatfleet could take advantage of the opening to attack.

On the other hand, if they made sure their defenses would be strong even with the fleet lost, then I see no compelling reason that losing a fleet needs to feel dangerous.  That just seems like the game trying to force a loss-averse play style on the players whether they like it or not.

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Admittedly, doesn't feel great that the AI kicks you when you're down, but I tend to reload after stupid fleet losses.

I would prefer to play through my losses, but I'll admit that I've sometimes reloaded precisely because I didn't want to have to deal with the reprisal waves.

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If you could disable reprisals, that option would probably also have to disable salvage.

To me, it seems perfectly valid to want to play with either, both, or neither of them.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Losing a fleet DOES impact you. Ever heard of retaliation fleet? Every ship lost in enemy territory gives the enemy extra resources to build up to a retaltion fleet.
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Offline Pumpkin

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Losing a fleet DOES impact you. Ever heard of retaliation fleet? Every ship lost in enemy territory gives the enemy extra resources to build up to a retaltion fleet.
That's the reprisal, right? Or are you talking of another mechanic that does the same thing?

I'm pushing open doors:
Scrap (or salvage) (humans gaining metal for AI ships destroyed on their territory) and reprisal (AIs launching big waves when human ships die on their territory) were created at the same time and are two facets of the same mechanism.
What is this retaliation fleet you're talking about, Mànagarmr? Is it the reprisal waves? Or something else? I'm confused.
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
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Offline tadrinth

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I suppose you could put human salvage and AI reprisal waves on separate sliders, much like alt champ progress and alt champ nemesis, and just say that to keep the challenge you should keep the reprisal intensity as high as the salvage intensity.  My point was that disabling just one or the other would make the game significantly easier or harder, but I guess that's just AI War.  It would be a little odd to have a minor faction that has a nonzero default, though, and since salvage and reprisals are currently intended to be part of the default experience, you'd want to default them to both be on at the current intensity.

I suppose there's not much point in offering to volunteer to work on the current codebase if a rework is coming.  I have some bugs I'd really like to fix, and it wouldn't be the first crufty code base I've poked at. 


Offline Elestan

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I suppose you could put human salvage and AI reprisal waves on separate sliders, much like alt champ progress and alt champ nemesis

I actually have much the same comment about the Nemesis Champion Exo-waves; I should be able to tune them independently, rather than having them always on if using Champions.

Offline Pumpkin

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I suppose you could put human salvage and AI reprisal waves on separate sliders, much like alt champ progress and alt champ nemesis

I actually have much the same comment about the Nemesis Champion Exo-waves; I should be able to tune them independently, rather than having them always on if using Champions.
Just like the exos of the Golems and Spirecrafts.
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Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.
Pumpkin>> Do I need another cure about paranoia on top of overexcitement?
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