Is the Zevastator incorrectly balanced?

[Tridus]

If you're talking about stuff like Wrath Lances guarded by Superforts, two FFs, and a Core Missile Post next to a Core Raid Engine, the problem is not that the OMD is no longer shooting spitballs.

[chemical_art]

My comment was thay the whole cap of transports, including decoys, would die in ten seconds.  I think it takes like 10 - 20 fort shots. The fort lobs hundreds of shots per strike though, and its reload in practice around 5 seconds.

Hearing a whole force including decoys being wiped in 20 seconds is not surprisi.g.

It happening on diff 6 though does suprise ne.

[Draco18s]

If you're talking about stuff like Wrath Lances guarded by Superforts, two FFs, and a Core Missile Post next to a Core Raid Engine, the problem is not that the OMD is no longer shooting spitballs.

Superfort is not uncommon if you have trains enabled (any difficutly!).  One force field protecting it is so freakingly common its not even funny (all three times in my current game it's been two: Mk3 + Mk5).  Having a core guard post next to it is basically guaranteed (they spawn next to a guard post).  Playing on any difficulty above 6 has good odds of putting an AI Eye of some kind in the system.

(Note: I didn't say "raid engine" I said "raid eye", the former never spawns on homeworlds, the latter is a brutal pick).

Other brutal picks that would be excessively nasty would be the wrath lance* and the teuthida (zombifies your ships against you: did you bring fighters as distractors?  Oops, now they're chewing on your bombers...).

*NOTE: It's WRATH lance, as in "full of wrath."  Not "wraith" as in a ghost or specter.

[TechSY730]

The superfort probably should just be banned entirely on any difficulty <7.

Oh, and the regen for AI forts has been removed recently. I think AI forcefields also got it removed. Guard posts and core guard posts still have regen.

[Draco18s]

The superfort probably should just be banned entirely on any difficulty <7.

Oh, and the regen for AI forts has been removed recently. I think AI forcefields also got it removed. Guard posts and core guard posts still have regen.

Superforts I think simply need to be rebalanced.

It's not that they're a dif 7+ feature (by the way, nearly ever "this is kind of hard" feature kicks in at 7.0, making the jump from 6.9999 to 7.0 excrutiating), its that there is no viable way to tackle them when a full load of bombers can't even deal 1 damage to it before dying (and hitting anything else in the system first is pointless, because Superfort murders everything instantly*).

*Superforts have a kill factor on par with 25 mark 5 ion cannons, give or take, and double the range.  It would take a superfort 17 seconds to kill both Mk5 Zevastators you can fleet (if they didn't have polycrystal hulls).  50 seconds to kill all ten of them (and have 20,000,000 damage left over to hit something else with).

[TechSY730]

As I have said many times in the past, fortresses in general need to be rethought some.

I'm actually happy with how strong superforts (both AI and human) are, I just don't like how hard they counter and their counters are, as it leads to things like this.

[Draco18s]

As I have said many times in the past, fortresses in general need to be rethought some.

I'm actually happy with how strong superforts (both AI and human) are, I just don't like how hard they counter and their counters are, as it leads to things like this.

Quite.

I don't care how they end up getting rethought, they need to be.

[chemical_art]

Superforts are almost on the same level of strength as brutal posts. In player and not ai hw hands that is fine, but it breaks any sense of balancing ai.hw.

[Draco18s]

but it breaks any sense of balancing ai.hw.

And guess where they show up all of the time...

[chemical_art]

but it breaks any sense of balancing ai.hw.

And guess where they show up all of the time...

Either they need to always appear or never, because they are so strong leaving it to.chance is asking for nightmares.

[Toranth]

but it breaks any sense of balancing ai.hw.

And guess where they show up all of the time...

This is only because the Astro Trains plot currently has issues.  Since I won't touch Trains with a 10 parsec pole these days, I never see SuperForts on AI HWs.  I see maybe 1 AI SuperFort every 10 games or so, usually located somewhere I can avoid.
I think rebalancing the Trains plot would solve the issue of SuperForts on HWs.  While there's some complaint that forts in general are grindy, that's an entirely different issue.
And when the Trains plot is active, OMDs are going to be among the least of your worries.

[Draco18s]

And when the Trains plot is active, OMDs are going to be among the least of your worries.

Quite.

[TechSY730]

How about making them a brutal pick, never allow them to seed by chance anywhere (unless the AI is a fortress baron, which gets a smallish chance to get to chose a superfort on places they would be allowed to get a high mark fort, but even for them it would be HW only), so only by brutal pick or by buy from a zenith trader can they get superforts on their homeworld.

In return, maybe a Mk. IV fortress can be introduced that can get the current AI seeding rules of the superfort (this includes the fortress baron except for homeworld seeding), with the exception that superforts are not allowed to be concurrently picked on the same planet during game seed (not sure about zenith trader buys yet)

Also, replace the superfort astro train construction project with the Mk. IV fort construction project.

Unlike the AI superfort, the AI Mk. IV fortress would have the reduced range like the other AI forts.

The idea would be that the AI superfort becomes a brutal pick or zenith trader exclusive (with only fortress baron being an exception, and even they would be restricted to placing it on homeworlds at game seed), but still giving a "high tier" fortress for a rare seeding for the rest of the galaxy. (Of course, some way to build a Mk. IV human fortress will need to be added )

[Draco18s]

In your case, it would take about 5 to 6 (4 if you can get your whole fleet to ge at least one shot off) trips before the shield goes down.

Know what you can't do?

Hit a homeworld and lose your fleet in a suicide mission and expect to survive.

You know all those Mk5 units that were there?

Yeah.  They're totally going to go "hug defense, we're free threat now!" and waltz right over five or six planets (and their associated defenses).

[TechSY730]

In your case, it would take about 5 to 6 (4 if you can get your whole fleet to ge at least one shot off) trips before the shield goes down.

Know what you can't do?

Hit a homeworld and lose your fleet in a suicide mission and expect to survive.

You know all those Mk5 units that were there?

Yeah.  They're totally going to go "hug defense, we're free threat now!" and waltz right over five or six planets (and their associated defenses).

Should of made this a little clearer that I understood this when I posted. Even though you could save yourself a trip if you did several total fleet "suicidal attacks", I wouldn't recommend it, for the very reasons you listed.