Is the Zevastator incorrectly balanced?

[Shrugging Khan]

Really, the only occasion on which I ever feel bothered by Ion Cannons is when I ride around with the Zombards....that sounds silly. Bombards. Zenith Bombards.

Resource-Expensive ships with no Insta-Kill immunity. But then again, Ion Cannons are exceedingly fragile - send a Raid Starships and they're gone.

[LordSloth]

So yes, my Devastator point of view is under Fallen Spire and three cursed golems... For now, if it came to a vote, I'd abstain.

Since everybody is experimenting here, I highly recommend combining zevestators with a cloaker starship, flagships (or munitions boosters), and a spare transport. The alpha strike you can leverage against a guard post is fantastic. The DPS might not be much better than a Heavy Bomber starship, but the multiple marks and damage boost might be just enough to take down even a laser guard post in a single salvo.

I had some luck with this strategy before I switched to 'ridiculous overkill' tactics.

...I'd still love for them to have a slight boost to range, but that's me just being greedy from the old days when the humans had some long range starships before they became plasma siege. Now that we have dampening again...

[Diazo]

OMDs can on shot zevastators? I have no ifea their new strength, but I do know that considering zevadtators are the tankiest HP that seems to me that OMDs are too stronger.

I will admit I assumed that the new OMD's can one-shot Zevastators, but as the new OMD's do 60,000,000 damage a shot that seemed like a safe assumption.

Also, to clarify, the new OMD's do the same DPS as the Arachnid Mk III guard post, not the same damage.

OMD: 60million damage every 10 seconds
Arachnid Mk III: 30million damage every 5 seconds

With the OMD have system wide coverage, it is a scary hard-counter to starships.

D.

[chemical_art]

Yeah, in that case, Id consider it way over.the top. Way, way over.the top.

That is killing a cap of a unit in 20 seconds. I ask, is.there anything sans botnet.that can kill a cap in 20 seconds?

It kills most golems in less then a minute.

I am not pleased with this turn of events.

[keith.lamothe]

That is killing a cap of a unit in 20 seconds. I ask, is.there anything sans botnet.that can kill a cap in 20 seconds?

Arachnid Guard Posts   Even just the mkIIIs.  Let alone higher.

Other guard posts can probably manage it too, particularly mkIV varieties.

[chemical_art]

That is killing a cap of a unit in 20 seconds. I ask, is.there anything sans botnet.that can kill a cap in 20 seconds?

Arachnid Guard Posts   Even just the mkIIIs.  Let alone higher.

Other guard posts can probably manage it too, particularly mkIV varieties.

I see. And those have near infinite range? I thought after the missle.guard post discussion it was clear.just.how expodential range has on defense.

[keith.lamothe]

I see. And those have near infinite range?

No, but you didn't mention that in your question


Anyway, I don't much care where the OMD winds up, but lots of people wanted it to get a big buff, so it got a big buff.  If the consensus is now that they need a big nerf, then that's fine too, though I hope we can find something that doesn't lead to "now they're ignoreable again", etc.

[chemical_art]

@Lordsloth

That tactic is effective, but I dont see how it requires the zevastator in particular. You would get the same effect with most ships if target not under shield, and raiders are always there if target under shield.

[chemical_art]

I see. And those have near infinite range?

No, but you didn't mention that in your question


Anyway, I don't much care where the OMD winds up, but lots of people wanted it to get a big buff, so it got a big buff.  If the consensus is now that they need a big nerf, then that's fine too, though I hope we can find something that doesn't lead to "now they're ignoreable again", etc.

While it is true I among others wanted a buff, I didn't expect a 37.5 fold increase in dps. Given just how expensive starships are, 10 million per salvo would get my attention.

[Diazo]

And it can't target fleet ships.

Sure, you can screw up and lose a lot of starships if you somehow miss the fact that and OMD is present, but there are things like Raid Engines and Neinzul Privacy Clusters around that I would rate as being worse on the "oops" meter.

Against starships the OMD is currently overpowered, but as you always have fleet ships available to kill the OMD with I'm not going to argue that this is a problem.

Maybe unbalanced (pending me getting some playtime in), but not broken.

I'm actually okay with this I think, it is one of the few times in the game that fleet ships have a clear advantage over starships where-as there are several situations where starships have a clear advantage over fleet ships.

(As always, playtesting is required, I have not faced a new OMD yet in game.)

D.

edit: Also, remember that the OMD has only a single mark. To be effective it has to be balanced for the end-game when you are attacking the AI's core worlds and homeworld with a large fleet. Not for the early game where you have a much smaller (and lower mark) fleet.

[keith.lamothe]

Maybe if it were accompanied by the AI taunt, "Ah, finally something this stupid gun can hit.  You'd think it was an Antimatter Starship."

[TechSY730]

Don't forget fortresses. Especially the higher mark ones, or the superfort.

Granted, fortresses in AI hands have a pretty chunky range nerf (except for AI superforts)

Also, some of the "brutal picks" for AI homeworld are capable of destroying entire armadas very, very quickly.

That said, if we want to keep the OMDs range, maybe a theoretical Mk 2.25 antristarship guard post's statistics? I'm envisioning that the OMD should just barely fail to oneshot a Mk. II zenith starship. (Or if that is too little, deal 2/3rds the damage of the HP of a Mk. III zenith starship). That should still be strong enough to severely threaten starships, still make golems sweat, but give people a chance to deal with them if they do accidentally bring big stuff into the system.

Either that, or keep OMDs as is, and reduce the spawn rate to just a little over superfort spawn rate (for the peacekeeper AI type, just a little over the rate that the Fortress Baron AI has for superforts), and jack up the price of the OMD from the trader and make the cap 1.

[Tridus]

Seems like they should still be handleable with Starships if you use something that's got shields to provide cover. Riots, Champions, Protectors (with shields). Given the low rate of fire it's not going to get a lot of shots in and if it has to go through three or four shield modules before it can take out any ships then you should be fine.

Or am I mistaken and a shot's damage can keep going and hit multiple shields?

[Diazo]

Actually, the OMD currently does not one-shot a Zenith mark II.

However, the Zenith line has a cap of 1, not 2, so it effectively has double the health of other starships on a 1-to-1 basis.

Also, remember that the OMD has only a single mark. To be effective it has to be balanced for the end-game when you are attacking the AI's core worlds and homeworld with a large fleet. Not for the early game where you have a much smaller (and lower mark) fleet.

D.

[chemical_art]

Reducing OMD sharply would help a lot. Because right now its power is so high in the stratosphere it is being compared to objects that appear maybe a half dozen times (super forts, brutal picks).

And if OMDs are fine because you can always send fleetships, we should buff ion cannons so they kill caps as well. So what if ion cannons kills hu.
ndreds of ships a minute? You can always use starships, right? And a ion cannon and omd never spawn on the same world, right?