Author Topic: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?  (Read 2788 times)

Offline alocritani

  • Jr. Member Mark III
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« on: September 22, 2013, 04:01:51 pm »
I want to share with you what happened in my last game.
I had to attack one of the AI homeworlds: I destroyed all guard post and only the AI command station remained, but it was protected by a mkIII fortress and by two mkV forcefields.

I'm still a noob (this is my second game) so I was unsure how to handle this. I discovered that fortresses have a 0.01 multiplier against polycristal ships (bombers, mainly) so I kept all other ships out-of-range of fortress and sent my bomber alone to attack it.
It worked quite well until AI started sending fighter against them... a lot of fighters... I retreated close to my other ships, but most bombers were gone by the time I reached the main fleet.

I retreated and after 10-15 minutes I gathered enough forces and tried again. This time I brought space planes together with bombers: their radar dampening range was enough to keep fortress to fire against them while defending bombers, but again hordes of fighters stopped my effort.

It happened again and again and again, so I decided to change plan: I brought an hacker and put a sabotage hacker there. I defended it for 1 minute and fortress was gone, another minute and the first forcefield followed. Other five minutes and everything was over.

Now I have two question for you:

don't you think that, using sabotage, everything resolved in a too easy/fast way? hacker itself is not very expensive, and cost for sabotage is very low (in my case it was less than 10).
or it was just my experience?

finally, just out of curiosity, how would you have solved the situation? Is sending bombers alone/with space plane (when available) a viable solution? Any other idea?

Offline Chthon

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 12:00:09 am »
How much hacking did you do?  If not much to none-at-all the AI would not have expected that at all.  Their guard was down and you picked the right move to win.  If you had done a lot of hacking then the AI should have overreacted and crushed you for it.

Offline Kahuna

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
  • Kahuna Matata!
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 12:51:18 am »
I think you just need to increase the difficulty level. See how far you can get on 10/10 difficulty :)
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline alocritani

  • Jr. Member Mark III
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 03:21:57 am »
How much hacking did you do?  If not much to none-at-all the AI would not have expected that at all.  Their guard was down and you picked the right move to win.  If you had done a lot of hacking then the AI should have overreacted and crushed you for it.

I did several hackings against backup server, mainly corrupting design, but almost no sabotage hacking, so the hacking cost was still low for sabotage...

Offline Chthon

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 03:28:15 am »
How much hacking did you do?  If not much to none-at-all the AI would not have expected that at all.  Their guard was down and you picked the right move to win.  If you had done a lot of hacking then the AI should have overreacted and crushed you for it.

I did several hackings against backup server, mainly corrupting design, but almost no sabotage hacking, so the hacking cost was still low for sabotage...
Then it sounds about right.  The computer was unfamiliar with you using that sort of tactic, so when you did it, it surprised them, and they did not have any means of detection in place yet.

Offline Zeyi

  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 79
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 03:47:12 am »
Also everyone needs to remember to consider these hacking changes are brand new, and balancing will probably be more of an afterthought  than at implementation-  whilst balance doesn't seem too bad at the minute I imagine there are a fair few changes to come regarding hacking.

Offline Tridus

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,305
  • I'm going to do what I do best: lecture her!
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 08:56:16 am »
This feels overpowered the first time you do it, but with how the AI response ramps up you can't do it very many times. So I think it's okay.

Besides, it's even cheesier to just bring Protector Starships and watch the Fortress be completely unable to damage your ships. :D

Offline alocritani

  • Jr. Member Mark III
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 09:27:39 am »
Besides, it's even cheesier to just bring Protector Starships and watch the Fortress be completely unable to damage your ships. :D

Protector starships?!? never found them... I'll investigate more about them... thanks for the tip!

Offline Tridus

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,305
  • I'm going to do what I do best: lecture her!
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2013, 10:13:32 am »
They're a bonus ship, so you can sometimes find them at advanced research stations or fabricators. You can hack an advanced research station to get to pick one of three ships out of it (no hacking means you get the first listed ship). You can also get them by hitting the generate map button until they appear and picking their system as your starting one.

They don't have any real offense of their own, but they can house modules that shoot down enemy bullets. They're my absolute favorite thing in Vengeance of the Machine. If you want to see how they handle a fortress, here's a video of me killing a mk III fortress using mk I fighters and missile frigates with protectors for cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Dj5WcFoZo
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:18:20 am by Tridus »

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251

Offline tadrinth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2013, 06:44:44 pm »
Sabotage hacking is really useful if you save it for the AI homeworlds. 

It works on EYES.  Bring in enough forces to cover your hacker, drop the sabotage thingy, and watch the fortifications go away.  Once the eye is gone, bring in everything and kick ass.

Offline Toranth

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,244
Re: Is hacker sabotage overpowered?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 07:30:19 pm »
Sabotage hacking is really useful if you save it for the AI homeworlds. 

It works on EYES.  Bring in enough forces to cover your hacker, drop the sabotage thingy, and watch the fortifications go away.  Once the eye is gone, bring in everything and kick ass.
Eyes?  Oooooh, hadn't tried that one yet.  Yay.

Of course, you need to be able to securely hold against not only the Hacking response, but also the entire AI HOMEWORLD's defenses.  If you can manage that, the additional benefit of the Sabotage is nice - but not overpowering.