Is AIP too inhibitive?

[chemical_art]

Average ten player is either scouting or building up his cap, to the point of getting matter reactors if necessary with the implicit knowledge they will be scrapped if the fleet is wiped.

First goal is to wipe all possible data centers, no matter the cost. If it takes the whole fleet to acomplish it then that is fine, since the ai response is weak. Afterward either the player looks for plots to steal a golem at best or at worst an ars on the way to a homeworld.

Time is still important though, for it is much harder to repel a CPA without a golem preferably, or at least an ars.

[Mánagarmr]

Might add that me and King played a game over the last few weeks at 7.6 diff and we had about 250 AIP in the end, and the waves didn't really bother us. What did us in was me inadvertently (sp?) alerting the second homeworld, thus triggering a MkIV CPA and an Exo wave that hit his homeworld simultaneously (I was a champion). We didn't survive that due to the vast majority of our defenses sitting on the Whipping Boy.

[ZaneWolfe]

3) AIP?  Complete disregard.  Generally only works once you've got a few cities up in Fallen Spire, but can work fairly gloriously then.  Since Fallen Spire exos have no relationship to AIP, you can use the capital ships to do tapdances on the AI's face and not really worry too much about the waves as long as you can make sure your cities and capital ships are between the waves and your home command station.  Last FS game I played all the way through I think I was at 1200 AIP by the end.  The waves were noticeable, but not particularly problematic as long as I kept them from combining with exos.

This ^. I always play with Fallen Spire enabled and use Maze and similar style maps where i can make block points. Put the Cities ON TOP of the wormholes  which lead to my Homeworlds and it means that the AI pretty much has to kill that City before it can get to me. Once you hit 5 Cities, you can literally build them in a line leading up to the AI Homeworlds, so every single wave MUST kill multiple cities before getting to my Homeworlds. (Unless the AI gets something rediculusly nasty with both Cloaking and Forcefield immunity. Then I tend to lose if the waves get big enough.)

[Kahuna]

But then on the other side of things - at difficulty 8, where I currently like to be, I dont really want to be bogged down by silly things like worrying about a wave. I know that sounds weird, that I want to be able to ignore one of the major aspects of the (base) game, but I want my empire to maintain itself without my fleet's intervention.

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,11600.msg119234.html#msg119234

*cross planet waves seem to spawn on average two planets away from their target, and are released as threat-ish things.

How Beachheads would work with this?

[Draco18s]

*cross planet waves seem to spawn on average two planets away from their target, and are released as threat-ish things.

How Beachheads would work with this?

CP-waves and Beachheads work about how you'd expect: the beachheads move with the wave.  If I recall correctly.

[Diazo]

*cross planet waves seem to spawn on average two planets away from their target, and are released as threat-ish things.

How Beachheads would work with this?

CP-waves and Beachheads work about how you'd expect: the beachheads move with the wave.  If I recall correctly.

They do? Beachheads have a speed of 0 as far as I know.

D.

[Lancefighter]

I dont know, I never did like the implementation of beachheads.

[Diazo]

I don't think anyone does.

I believe they were a first attempt at giving the AI a tool to crack a whipping boy that went overboard and turned into an "I win" button for the AI.

I can't remember the last time I heard a game mentioned with them enabled.

D.

[Lancefighter]

I just really dont like the whole inhibits supply thing (i think they still do that at least?)

I have enough trouble with emp guardians, since I dont actively defend my wormholes.. really want an emp protection forcefield. Can we make hardened forcefields do that?

[Diazo]

Yes, beachheads interfere with supply, that's what makes them so overpowered.

If any changes were made to the beachheads I'd like to see them get a champion type force field instead.

They would still be immobile on the warp point but they would give the AI's waves time to get a wave or two of shots off.

As for EMP guardians, save your starships for them? They are really the only EMP immune tool players have.

D.

[Draco18s]

*cross planet waves seem to spawn on average two planets away from their target, and are released as threat-ish things.

How Beachheads would work with this?

CP-waves and Beachheads work about how you'd expect: the beachheads move with the wave.  If I recall correctly.

They do? Beachheads have a speed of 0 as far as I know.

You're right.  And I do recall having a game with CP-waves and beachheads, and it did work out, but I don't remember how.

[Diazo]

The cross-planet waves did it.

Because they spawn at an AI warp gate and not out of a wormhole, the beachhead would have been left behind in AI space.

Makes it absolutely worthless as a structure and would give the occasional half size wave to defend against.

D.

[Shrugging Khan]

God knows I stick to the floor for as long as I can; not capturing anything beyond my Homeworld's immediate neighbours and deep-striking Data Centres no matter how far away they are.

Most of my early-game (hours and hours) is just scouting, killing Tachyon Posts, scouting further, levelling up the Champ, and sending it to kill Data Centres where they are found. I don't usually start expanding and taking assets until the first Exo-Wave forces my hand.

Essentially, my AIP strategy nowadays is to keep it at least 80 points below the mkII threshold, so I can knock it down another bit by sniping the Co-Processors.

Champions have made me lame

[LaughingThesaurus]

I don't think I posted here.

I'm not one to talk about higher level play, obviously, but any gameplay of 7/7 I've done (not very much) gives manageable waves, and I'd welcome the extra challenge of higher AIP, because it kinda balances out knowledge acquisitions, a larger empire buffer, more factories and income, and fabricators.

...really, it seems almost like playing 10/10 is a different playstyle entirely, and if it's too restrictive, you can drop the difficulty and actually be able to survive with AI Progress. The problem might be similar to say, Inferno mode in Diablo 3. It's so hard that you are completely pigeonholed into only one or two builds, which ultimately means that the game failed at what it set out to do in the only part of the game that really mattered to people -- the endgame item hunts (but the success of that is a different discussion).
However, I really wouldn't know how to fix that problem without breaking the game. Like, Inferno mode is inherently flawed, and I don't see an actual way to fix it. They piled on a bunch of numbers to the enemies to make them impossible. Likewise, on 10/10 at like 100/150 AIP will completely kill you, barring crazy nonsense with nukes and electric warheads, right? What would be really the solution to allow players to feel uninhibited while also making it hard enough to challenge Starcraft grandmasters?

[Varone]

The cross-planet waves did it.

Because they spawn at an AI warp gate and not out of a wormhole, the beachhead would have been left behind in AI space.

Makes it absolutely worthless as a structure and would give the occasional half size wave to defend against.

D.

Oh yes! Beachheads, i sometimes play with them because i use cross planet waves. All is fine when the waves don't use carriers. As Diazo said they are left behind on the planet the wave spawns at. BUT when the waves get big enough to need carriers then the AI has its fun as it packs the beachheads into the carriers so when you pop them... out they come! Much more fun and can actually be managable. Always nervous when they get carriers wondering if this carrier will have a beachhead inside. And when it does... Blind panic as you try and kill them as fast as possible to bring your turrets and shields back up. Great fun.