Ion Cannons

[Cinth]

Not an individual ion.  With a small contingent like that though, planet defenders and an ion can make quick work of your force.  Just reread the first example I gave (the 7.6 one) and take it at face value with the ss I posted. It's purely situational. 

I might lose a bunch of ships to one but using MK Is i can replace them quickly.

[PokerChen]

I've never even thought to do something like that, Cinth.  Why do you start out that way?  Is it like a threat/wave magnet or something?

It keeps threat off your doorstep

I started doing it when I started doing 10s.  Kill off one gate so you don't have to deal with waves and go decimate the AI at your leisure.  With one HW it is a rocky start for sure. At 16 HWs, you can laugh maniacally for hours  >D

Turn on cross planet waves and save yourself 5 AIP?

= = =
About Ions, I don't think they are relevant right now - they can be eliminated easily. However, I also think starship blobbing seems to be the flavour of the week, so tweaks to OMDs and some AI-eye counterparts would be more in place.

[Bognor]

Somewhat relevant to this thread, Counter-Spies are absurdly weak.  Their RoF is so low they seem to have less influence on scouting than regular Ion Cannons.  Their other problem is that they can only hit cloaked ships, but nearly all cloaked ships are either immune to insta-kill (Spire Stealth Battleship, Eyebot, Scout Starships, Cloaker Starships) or else have such high caps that a few losses don't matter (Autocannon Minipods, Raptors, Infiltrators, Space Planes, Etherjets).  They're only significant against Vampires and scout pickets (and maybe Chameleons, not sure whether they're targetable).

[kasnavada]

On one hand, we want to keep Ion cannons useful to humans when the AI sends its blobs. On the other hand, don't want to give the AI yet another mechanic that favors low cap ships...

Not really sure how to address that.

Have them kill by cost, not level. Kill 4 units costing less than 1000, 2000, 4000, 16000, 32000K respectively (or whatever value seems appropriate).

[KDR_11k]

That wouldn't change anything. Low cap ships are proportionally more expensive. So a MkV ion cannon could suddenly snipe your MkI low caps? That'll just confuse people.

Perhaps ion damage could be a percentage of cap HP when doing the "instakill" so if it did e.g. 1/48th of cap HP per shot it could be allowed to hit low caps too, wouldn't instantly annihilate them but still wipe out a cap with the same speed.

[chemical_art]

Can we agree that Ion Cannons at least could benefit from having more health, even if it was just 1 mil * mk?

[TechSY730]

Can we agree that Ion Cannons at least could benefit from having more health, even if it was just 1 mil * mk?

Something like this for the OMD too, please? (7.5 mill health maybe?). (Though the OMD needs a chunky buff of damage per shot too)

[Kahuna]

There's nothing wrong with Ion Cannons. They're powerful and annoying. Early game 2 of them will easily wipe out all Mark Is. I really have no idea what the hell people who say "Eyes/Ion Cannons do nothing! I just blop around and herp a derp!" are talking about. "Oh but I play with 8 home worlds and just blop around the galaxy like herp a derp.. oh and I use max caps".. only games with 1 homeworld and normal cap sizes count. When was the last time you actually played this game? I just tested blopping vs a Plasma Eye and it destroyed my entire fleet including Starships in about 10 seconds or something.

[RCIX]

But... I do. One ion cannon is, in pretty much every case, literally going to kill 4-8 units before it dies. A few might get through as many as 20-40. And uh, if by "early game" you mean first couple of hours, sure. Most fortified worlds will chew up and spit out player fleets. Once you have a fleet ball worth talking about, then they'll kill a few and get curbstomped by the player forces. Never mind if you use bomber starships, raids, or any of the myriad instakill immune units to kill it.

Eyes are another story, and I think they are a lot better.

[Kahuna]

Mark II IC targeting Mark II Bombers = -3200 resources/second for 96 seconds = 307200 resources. If that's absolutely nothing to you then increase the difficulty. People don't know what they're talking about.

"Oh but it's not going to take 96 seconds to kill the IC.. I just blop in and herp a derp" well sometimes ICs are under forcefields. They can also be next to MRLS or Missile GPs. You would need Mark II >= Raid SS to destroy the IC. "Oh but I can destroy it with Mark I Raid SSs too! I just go in and herp a derp! I don't give a shit if I lose resources game's so easy".. increase the difficulty ffs. Bombers might not destroy the MRLS AND the IC if they're far from your wormhole. The GP will also have guards which will make bombers' job harder. Missile Frigates would destroy the Missile GP but wouldn't do sht vs the IC. MFs are also very slow so most of them would be destroyed before they reach the Missile GP.. and because of that they probably wouldn't be able to destroy it.

[RCIX]

So wait, the solution to the complaint that ion cannons at reasonable difficulties (7.6 and 1 homeworld) are a non threat when they shouldn't be is... turn up the difficulty? 

Also, once you get several worlds, resources are easy to come by except in re-fleeting situations, at which point you have resource issues anyway.

[Kahuna]

So wait, the solution to the complaint that ion cannons at reasonable difficulties (7.6 and 1 homeworld) are a non threat when they shouldn't be is... turn up the difficulty? 

Yes. At least partially. Ion Cannons are basically economic attritioners. If you constantly have "too much" resources you're playing on "too" low difficulty.

EDIT:

Also, once you get several worlds, resources are easy to come by except in re-fleeting situations, at which point you have resources anyway.

Again if you have nothing to use resources on you might be playing on "too" low difficulty level. You could be building or repairing golems, starships and spirecraft, turrets, forts and minefields. If you don't have a Zenith Power Generator Matter Converters will consume some of your resources. And if you always capture so many planets you don't need Matter Converters you're playing on "too" low difficulty too.

[RCIX]

So wait, the solution to the complaint that ion cannons at reasonable difficulties (7.6 and 1 homeworld) are a non threat when they shouldn't be is... turn up the difficulty? 

Yes. At least partially. Ion Cannons are basically economic attritioners. If you constantly have "too much" resources you're playing on "too" low difficulty.

But if they aren't doing that on difficulties they should...

[Hearteater]

They can also be next to MRLS or Missile GPs. You would need Mark II >= Raid SS to destroy the IC.

I have never needed Mark II Raid Starships to destroy every single Ion Cannon, Data Center, Co-Processor, and all the other assorted things you are likely to want to remove surgically.  Even next to an MLRS and Missile GP.  Raid Starships negate Ion Cannons completely and without difficulty.  If you don't feel like using Raid Starships properly, maybe you should turn down the difficulty?

[Kahuna]

So wait, the solution to the complaint that ion cannons at reasonable difficulties (7.6 and 1 homeworld) are a non threat when they shouldn't be is... turn up the difficulty? 

Yes. At least partially. Ion Cannons are basically economic attritioners. If you constantly have "too much" resources you're playing on "too" low difficulty.

But if they aren't doing that on difficulties they should...

Fighters SHOOT! They're combat ships and are meant to kill stuff! They don't kill me on the default difficulty level! Plz buff!