Ion Cannons

[Chthon]

@Hearteater Just a few sniper turrets wipe out raid starships easily.  Sniper guardians too for yours.

[Hearteater]

Scout Starship ends the sniper threat.  Just to throw this out there, I have never had a single Ion Cannon I could not trivially remove in any game of AI Wars excluding home worlds.  They seriously warrant absolutely no concern from me because of how easily they are removed.  And Energy isn't in the least a concern even on a single HW.  You don't need 100% turrets at 10 AIP.  I can take a Mark IV neighbor with less than 100% forces.

Ion are so fragile their threat is meaningless unless you want to capture them.  It isn't really even debatable.  I welcome any save game with a problem Ion Cannon, on any difficulty, to prove me wrong (exludes home world Ions).

[Cinth]

Scout Starship ends the sniper threat.  Just to throw this out there, I have never had a single Ion Cannon I could not trivially remove in any game of AI Wars excluding home worlds.  They seriously warrant absolutely no concern from me because of how easily they are removed.  And Energy isn't in the least a concern even on a single HW.  You don't need 100% turrets at 10 AIP.  I can take a Mark IV neighbor with less than 100% forces.

Ion are so fragile their threat is meaningless unless you want to capture them.  It isn't really even debatable.  I welcome any save game with a problem Ion Cannon, on any difficulty, to prove me wrong (exludes home world Ions).

Differences in playstyle.  I won't leave my choke unless I can "set it and forget it".  And I have serious doubts about triangle caps + 1 fully clearing a MK IV without serious losses.

[TechSY730]

Scout Starship ends the sniper threat.  Just to throw this out there, I have never had a single Ion Cannon I could not trivially remove in any game of AI Wars excluding home worlds.  They seriously warrant absolutely no concern from me because of how easily they are removed.  And Energy isn't in the least a concern even on a single HW.  You don't need 100% turrets at 10 AIP.  I can take a Mark IV neighbor with less than 100% forces.

Ion are so fragile their threat is meaningless unless you want to capture them.  It isn't really even debatable.  I welcome any save game with a problem Ion Cannon, on any difficulty, to prove me wrong (exludes home world Ions).

What about very early game, where you are still at 1 (maybe 2) planet(s), where you don't even get enough energy to support a full cap of triangles units without resorting to 1 or 2 or more matter converters, and have to take on Mk. III or even Mk. IV worlds because they are adjacent to your home, against AI types that don't skimp on defenders at game seed, at >7 difficulty?

This has actually happened to me several times, including the game I am currently playing.

[Cinth]

Hell, I've run across MK IV planets with MK III + II Zenith SS as my neighbor on 7.6 (RNG, go figure). 

[chemical_art]

i think what was meant was that while causalities can be assured with a mk 4 neighbor, they can be overcome ion cannons be...darned

[Cinth]

i think what was meant was that while causalities can be assured with a mk 4 neighbor, they can be overcome ion cannons be...darned

Yeah... with a new game   I punish myself enough as is.  I don't need RNG kicking me in the shins right at the start.

[Hearteater]

I have actually cleared an Ion Cannon IV off a Mark IV world next to my home system with hybrids on 4 at difficulty 9/9 before the 1 hour mark on the game clock.  In fact Mark IV worlds next to me are always my first target, otherwise they get too dangerous especially with hybrids.

Raid Starships operate independently.  There is nothing you are doing that requires Raid Starships to be with the rest of your forces.  You can always be raiding and doing everything you are currently doing.  I don't think you can classify "playstyle" as "not using a basic ship."  That would be like saying your chess playstyle is "I don't use Knights."

[Cinth]

If I don't have the energy available to run starships then it isn't an open choice to take, now is it.  Fact of the matter is that I will always open the same way.  Build my cap of available ships, build 5 mobile builders, move to neighbor, pop the gate and establish a beachhead.  That one defensive position must be able to handle everything the AI can possibly throw at it in the worst case.  Threat Fleet, SF, waves, and CPAs.  Once that is up and running, I will see what energy I have left and build my fleet around that. 

So yeah, that is playstyle. One based around a heavy defense. 

[Hearteater]

So yeah, that is playstyle. One based around a heavy defense.

I honestly don't have any idea what game you are playing, but it bares no resemblance to AI Wars from what I can tell.  Something is missing because on 7.6/7.6 there is no way you can't fit 3 Raid Starships into your build early enough to wipe every annoying AI structure vulnerable to them from the map while not at all impacting any other strategy you care to carry out.

[Zeyurn]

So yeah, that is playstyle. One based around a heavy defense.

I honestly don't have any idea what game you are playing, but it bares no resemblance to AI Wars from what I can tell.  Something is missing because on 7.6/7.6 there is no way you can't fit 3 Raid Starships into your build early enough to wipe every annoying AI structure vulnerable to them from the map while not at all impacting any other strategy you care to carry out.

I play similarly to Cinth in that I ignore Raid Starships as not worthy of my attention and focus on defenses and other things.

I tend to find Ion Cannons are ridiculously underpowered even for the AI, since in a 10/10 game the AI can easily have 5 of them on _one planet_ and I don't even think about it when I go in.   Anything that can snipe obliterates them (Sentinel Frigates go!), and even if you don't it's not that hard to have several thousand ships and parasites reclaiming more.

(Some) Eyes and Superforts are about the only thing that really scare me after the very very beginning game, and the enemy SF blob.  (On 9+ games CPAs and waves start worrying me some, and counterattacks more than some)

I've never bothered taking an Ion Cannon because the amount of AI troops I tend to fight is so ludicrous that I'd probably need 40 of them to even start denting things.

In a Medium-High AIP game, Ion Cannons are simply negligible.

[Cinth]

Visuals might help here.  My last game, for instance, I could not put up all my turrets before hitting low energy.

[Winge]

I've never even thought to do something like that, Cinth.  Why do you start out that way?  Is it like a threat/wave magnet or something?

[Cinth]

I've never even thought to do something like that, Cinth.  Why do you start out that way?  Is it like a threat/wave magnet or something?

It keeps threat off your doorstep

I started doing it when I started doing 10s.  Kill off one gate so you don't have to deal with waves and go decimate the AI at your leisure.  With one HW it is a rocky start for sure. At 16 HWs, you can laugh maniacally for hours  >D

[Hearteater]

Ok, I see what you are doing, but I still bet I can trim 15k energy somewhere to fit in 3 Raids without impacting your build's effectiveness.  But ignoring that, do you actually have trouble with Ions?  It sounded like you were, so I just want to make sure I'm not confused.