Author Topic: I really can't stand in this game is:  (Read 1947 times)

rubikscube

  • Guest
I really can't stand in this game is:
« on: April 05, 2010, 09:50:22 pm »
Attention, this post has no angry feeling against the staff and designers of ai war and is a friendly post to get more people to agree what i'm angry about.


Control nodes, put them in options, end of story

The reason: They look bad  :-\  also, i don't want to waste my 10 metal and 10 crystal ( as i sad in my other post) and they waste a little time. the idea of control nodes is wierd.

Auto energy management

I already saw Chris Park's article in the wiki http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Micromanagement and this is what i think of it

first, i wanna praise you since i never thought of auto scouting myself ;D but from what i understand "However, in extreme circumstances where a campaign would otherwise be a loss, players can either opt to A) concede defeat, since they have lost; B) get really tricky and do all sorts of micro-intensive activities to claw their way back in. "  you're trying to say that we should leave an ace in the hole just in case we get owned bad?
 The game is built around expecting players to build enough reactors to maintain all of their ships.
this is ok with us, just turn them on when we need them, we don't have that time to turn energy reactors on
2. Some players like to micromanage the reactors to gain an added advantage. This is fine, but I'm not going to go out of my way to make that easier; they are deriving an advantage out of this that is not really intended.
change that to they are trying to solve a bug that is not really intended
4. Therefore, I don't see a need for a reactor automation node at all. The only thing that it would do is help all players derive an advantage from auto-microing their reactors, in which case I would then have to rebalance the game around that, in which case you're back to square one of it not mattering at all.
i dunno about you but saving time will make me happier but not more powerful in the game
Things like this are always an arms race. When you give the AI a new ability, the game gets harder. When you give the player one, the game gets easier. Etc. And in the middle are various micro-intensive activities that players can optionally do in order to gain some sort of specific advantage if they are so inclined. Keyword there is optional. These are not really intended strategies that the game expects players to use in order to win, but rather are sideways solutions that players work out in order to maximize their effectiveness given the game rules (at a cost of their time and attention to the micro).
to answe r this is tricky, as i said the game does not get easier to play to attack but easier to play to control, there is a reason why there are more than one person giving orders, it's to do everything they can(aka micromanaging) to reach their full potential. anyway, as i would say, it's just as the crystal managing, I'M NOT trying to get you to make everything easy for us but for something that really just isn't an advantage but a "bug" we should change it

"By contrast, reason I previously automated the building of metal and crystal harvesters is because there is no strategy to them at all, it is simply a "click to replace" type of activity that is short and pointless"

uhh, clicking off the energy reactor is also a click to replace type of activity, We're not asking you to do what i dreamed of(turning all unneeded ships to low power or auto scouting) but a simply turn off things when we obviously do not need them.


1. Micromanaging scouts to get really far with low-level scouts.
2. Micromanaging unit tactics and positioning in battle.
3. Micromanaging reactors.
4. Micromanaging low-power/full-power ships to minimize energy footprint.
5. Micromanaging engineer positioning and usage so as to reduce the number of engineers needed in the galaxy.
6. Micromanaging the positions of shield and munitions boosters to provide maximum coverage.
2and 6 is a great idea i actually wanted in the game, CAUSE, the point of the game is to control your fleet as a few seperal diversions, not micromanaging. but not needed for now



And the last good reason and i'm not criticizing anything. YOU HAVE OPTIONS IN THIS GAME, we have cheats(thx anyway) cool options such as handicaps and difficulty, we have control nodes but can't we at least get an option for auto energy reactor managing? there are so many friendly mods and skins for all kinds of games and i am sure that  a lot of people can design that node, ( still no criticizing) you yourself said this game is not competitive so why not have more options, turning it on or off should be our choice,

main reason i really want this is cause remember i don't really like time limits? i even asked you what would happen if i went afk for a week( which reminds me, we should have a contest for people to desgin a defense and see how long the game should last 8) ) i in no means is rude or ignorant so thanks for reading.

TheMachineIsSentient

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 11:16:22 pm »
I think the only thing I agree with here is that the control nodes feels clunky. I would also prefer an options menu for the given planet or the entire universe. Besides that, I can't tell what the rage is here. Micromanaging should always be rewarding, if you want to go in that direction. I don't think this game requires it, although it does require directing certain ships at certain targets if you want the most bang for your buck.

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 11:38:55 pm »
looks like i didn't do a good job convincing this is a friendly post, way to leave it to people who don't read to complicate things

micromanaging IS rewarding, i don't get what you're saying

Offline quickstix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Buy Now
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 09:34:32 am »
Big discussion on this happened some time ago when nodes were originally introduced, lots of opinions on the subject there if you're interested. Specifically, there was a fairly heated debate on nodes vs. options. This was a real cracker of an issue when nodes were first introduced. http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,2807.0.html

I'm fairly neutral on the issue. AI War is an ever evolving game which can sometimes change direction in interesting ways, so I just adapt to the way things go unless it's something that really irks me.

Good to hear your thoughts though, sometimes it's the oft thought that can have lasting impact and inspire much discussion.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 12:10:39 pm »
Quote
way to leave it to people who don't read to complicate things
Rubikscube, honestly, I don't want to read what you say because you tend to say things like that. 

We have a very pleasant community here and part of what makes that possible is that we tend to think carefully before saying something negative about someone else.  Your recent posts have seemed more and more out of tune with that, being far more rude and demanding than most.  Normally I wouldn't say anything but I think it's getting to the point of having a negative impact on other forum readers.

Anyway, on the control node vs. option thing, as quickstix said we've hashed this one out quite a bit.  Basically there are some nodes that would work better as options, but the change would take a lot of development time and unless that change-request winds up winning a DLC poll it isn't going to happen.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 07:12:19 pm »
I'm sorry, i can't understand anything you just said keith because it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're being mean :P

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 07:13:14 pm »
and thx quickstix, i already read that before i posted this , that IS one of the reason i'm posting this

Offline Velox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 07:33:30 pm »


I'm sorry, i can't understand anything you just said keith because it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're being mean :P

and thx quickstix, i already read that before i posted this , that IS one of the reason i'm posting this


     So, if I am understanding properly - and I'm not sure I am - you carefully (?) crafted a post about a topic that has been essentially beaten to death in large part because it has been essentially beaten to death...?

     In any case, Keith is relatively important around here, and not important in the amorphous "do you have any idea who I am, if I want a low-fat mochachino it should just happen" self-assumed prestige way - important in that he's part of the reason that there IS an "around here."  As such, he is your host.  You owe him your polite and considerate attention.  So please, go back and read his post.  If you still do not understand it, go back and read it again.  Repeat until you DO understand, and have internalized what he is requesting.  Also - if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion - you might take note of the fact that he did indeed present it as a relatively gentle suggestion, which is a courtesy by which he is not bound and of which you are fortunate to have been a recipient, given your behavior.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 07:44:20 pm by Velox »

Offline Dmdunn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 07:38:16 pm »
on the control node vs. option thing, as quickstix said we've hashed this one out quite a bit.  Basically there are some nodes that would work better as options, but the change would take a lot of development time and unless that change-request winds up winning a DLC poll it isn't going to happen.


I'm sorry, i can't understand anything you just said keith because it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're being mean :P

How about, instead of mindlessly attacking people that point out what you're doing wrong, you actually pay attention to what they say.

Offline drum

  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 07:46:45 pm »
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

sry couldn't resist :D

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 08:02:18 pm »
Just so things stay civil, it'd be good for us to stay focused on the topic (though it has been discussed at length elsewhere, of course) rather than the original poster's conduct.  I have reservations about said, obviously (and the matter is not closed), but this should not be a bash-rubikscube party :)

Anyway, I would contribute to the control node vs. option disucssion... but I think I'd just be duplicating words that have already happened in previous threads.  Basically if it's something that rises to the top of a DLC poll, we're happy to take that as a "this really *is* that important" message from the community and invest the necessary time (at least for those nodes that make sense as options).  Unless and until that happens...

Best,
Keith
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 08:14:01 pm »
thank you keith ;)

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 08:17:50 pm »


I'm sorry, i can't understand anything you just said keith because it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're being mean :P

and thx quickstix, i already read that before i posted this , that IS one of the reason i'm posting this


     So, if I am understanding properly - and I'm not sure I am - you carefully (?) crafted a post about a topic that has been essentially beaten to death in large part because it has been essentially beaten to death...?

     In any case, Keith is relatively important around here, and not important in the amorphous "do you have any idea who I am, if I want a low-fat mochachino it should just happen" self-assumed prestige way - important in that he's part of the reason that there IS an "around here."  As such, he is your host.  You owe him your polite and considerate attention.  So please, go back and read his post.  If you still do not understand it, go back and read it again.  Repeat until you DO understand, and have internalized what he is requesting.  Also - if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion - you might take note of the fact that he did indeed present it as a relatively gentle suggestion, which is a courtesy by which he is not bound and of which you are fortunate to have been a recipient, given your behavior.


Of course he is important, and we're trying to solve a problem, if you yourself can't understand what we're saying you should read it again like you said BUT don't read it again only if you're sure that the answer is not what you wanted.  :-[

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 08:18:42 pm »
on the control node vs. option thing, as quickstix said we've hashed this one out quite a bit.  Basically there are some nodes that would work better as options, but the change would take a lot of development time and unless that change-request winds up winning a DLC poll it isn't going to happen.


I'm sorry, i can't understand anything you just said keith because it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're being mean :P

How about, instead of mindlessly attacking people that point out what you're doing wrong, you actually pay attention to what they say.
I have a right mind to say this :How about, instead of mindlessly attacking people that point out what you're doing wrong, you actually pay attention to what they say.
dude, seriously 8)

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: I really can't stand in this game is:
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 08:19:46 pm »
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

sry couldn't resist :D

lol

and yes, i revived this thread cause it was down, if it wasn't down, i wouldn't revive it.