Author Topic: Do you use forts?  (Read 3594 times)

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Do you use forts?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2012, 12:53:22 pm »
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Ah! That's why I stopped using forts! They come with huge amounts of firepower. When a fleet is huge they can generate border buildup, but once the fleet leaves the buildup is relieved. BUT! With a fort, that buildup does not go anywhere, until the buildup is enough to smash the fort on its own. That does not happen with turrets, and even once a in a blue moon it does, the turrets are easily replaced. The fort does not.
This doesn't seem like a legitimate complaint to me.  If you let an enemy force build up over several hours outside of your Fortress' wormhole, you deserve to die when they finally become strong enough to overpower you. 

This isn't tower defense, it's AI War.  If the enemy is massing an army right outside your door, the appropriate response is to not just pretend like it isn't happening.  There's plenty of mechanics in the game that let you deal with these kinds of build-ups, such as local missiles, EMP missiles, Spire Martyrs, Autobombs, melee ships, Neinzul ships, Riot Control Starships, Parasite Starships, Tractor Beam Platforms, and many other options to deal with this kind of threat.

I think the true power of the Fortress COMES from its ability to intimidate your enemy and buy yourself time to deal with it.  If you don't like playing this way, the solution is simple:  Don't build Fortresses.  But plenty of us think they're fine as-is.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Do you use forts?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2012, 09:08:35 pm »
Quote
Ah! That's why I stopped using forts! They come with huge amounts of firepower. When a fleet is huge they can generate border buildup, but once the fleet leaves the buildup is relieved. BUT! With a fort, that buildup does not go anywhere, until the buildup is enough to smash the fort on its own. That does not happen with turrets, and even once a in a blue moon it does, the turrets are easily replaced. The fort does not.
This doesn't seem like a legitimate complaint to me.  If you let an enemy force build up over several hours outside of your Fortress' wormhole, you deserve to die when they finally become strong enough to overpower you. 

This isn't tower defense, it's AI War.  If the enemy is massing an army right outside your door, the appropriate response is to not just pretend like it isn't happening.  There's plenty of mechanics in the game that let you deal with these kinds of build-ups, such as local missiles, EMP missiles, Spire Martyrs, Autobombs, melee ships, Neinzul ships, Riot Control Starships, Parasite Starships, Tractor Beam Platforms, and many other options to deal with this kind of threat.

I think the true power of the Fortress COMES from its ability to intimidate your enemy and buy yourself time to deal with it.  If you don't like playing this way, the solution is simple:  Don't build Fortresses.  But plenty of us think they're fine as-is.

Maybe.

On the other hand, NO other defense that I know of allows this problem one. Because a well balanced turret force of a firepower 300 can stop more threat then the 500+++ (memory says its over 1k) firepower a fort causes, because turrets get bonuses while forts don't. It would be ok if the same applied in the same magnitude to all defenses, but it doesn't. It is mild to all other defenses, but for forts its very, very sharp.

If you think its an asset I can't fault you for taking advantage of it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:13:25 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Do you use forts?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2012, 11:07:21 pm »
I don't know how the current Firepower values are calculated, but I agree that it could be looked at.

If Firepower values aren't being increased according to multiplier bonuses, then something is seriously wrong with the calculations, and that's a problem in itself.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Do you use forts?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2012, 12:44:13 pm »
Now forts leave remains, and that's awesome.
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Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Do you use forts?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2012, 02:28:05 pm »
I rather like the command station invincibility idea, but if so we'd have to limit AI forts a lot more --- especially early game there are a lot of times when you really don't want to deal with a fort directly.

I agree about forts on realistic and similar maps types ---- they're a godsend when you have to deal with three + border worlds.  I often wind up on maps where I have to defend four or five worlds, and on these I find forts to be enormously helpful for holding down my back entrances.  I tend to have a lot of mobile military on defense as well, so it's not really a problem to reduce firepower enough to pull in AI ships.