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Author Topic: Hybrid Signal Tracker  (Read 5633 times)

Offline Kahuna

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Hybrid Signal Tracker
« on: August 12, 2012, 01:31:49 pm »
I just noticed playing with Advanced Hybrids enabled and Spirecraft disabled finding the signal is very grindy.
How about a "Hybrid Signal Tracker". It would be a building similar to the Survey Ship (except it's a building) that would track the "strange hybrid-like signal" and tell the player the name of the planet where the signal is coming from. It could be either free or cost 250-1000 Knowledge. Tracking the signal would take ~10 minutes.
With the Hybrid Signal Tracker it would be fun to play with advanced hybrids enabled and spirecraft disabled. (I'm playing 10/10 with Spirecraft and Golems disabled)

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9207
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 01:40:03 pm by Kahuna »
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set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 01:35:14 pm »
It's not 10/10 what makes it grindy. You will have to scout the whole map on all difficulty levels.
Logged
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Minotaar

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 01:40:35 pm »
Responded over on mantis, but in short I want it to just auto-reveal itself at 70-80% complete. Having to scout this much (and you need to do this more than once a game) is very annoying. "4 hops out" turns out to be a whole lot of planets most of the time.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 01:41:54 pm »
Quote from: Kahuna on August 12, 2012, 01:35:14 pm
It's not 10/10 what makes it grindy. You will have to scout the whole map on all difficulty levels.
Not the whole map. It will be (or at least should be, it is a bug if it isn't) at most 3 hops away from a human controlled planet (or rather, human controlled at the time of placement). Of course, that can still be a huge amount of territory to cover, but its a far cry from the whole map.

EDIT: It used to be 4 hops out, but it was nerfed to 3 hops out for this sort of reason.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 01:43:36 pm by TechSY730 »
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 01:48:42 pm »
In the game I'm playing with a friend, despite knowing it's only 3-4 hops out, we still can't find it.
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Offline Minotaar

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 01:54:35 pm »
Quote from: TechSY730 on August 12, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
EDIT: It used to be 4 hops out, but it was nerfed to 3 hops out for this sort of reason.

I didn't even see that. And the best part is, you can only find this in patch notes, but nowhere in-game  :)
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 02:19:00 pm »
Quote from: TechSY730 on August 12, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
It used to be 4 hops out, but it was nerfed to 3 hops out for this sort of reason.

What patch was this?
EDIT: In 5.041 patch the signal was always 4-7 hops away.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 02:24:48 pm by Kahuna »
Logged
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 03:24:46 pm »
It counts neutral as human-controlled for this. With a bunch of satellite worlds, it can easily be close to the whole map.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 03:49:51 pm »
Quote from: Kahuna on August 12, 2012, 02:19:00 pm
Quote from: TechSY730 on August 12, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
It used to be 4 hops out, but it was nerfed to 3 hops out for this sort of reason.

What patch was this?
EDIT: In 5.041 patch the signal was always 4-7 hops away.

Prerelease 5.028 was when the last nerf of the place distance (though the notes don't specify how far, I'm pretty sure I remember Kieth said 3 somewhere)

And for the 4-7 hops away, yea, that's too far. That would be a bug. Mantis it along with save? If at all possible, if you have a save of the super hybrid before it leaves what command station it was guarding to build the signal, that would be best for debugging, but that may not be feasible. It would also be nice to see a save of the hybrid with the placed signal at 6 or 7 hops away, as that is nasty.  :o
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Offline doctorfrog

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 05:35:52 pm »
Responded to this Mantis, in short, just suggesting to give this ability to Scouts outright. Instead of magically 'knowing' where the facility is, though, they only know the direction of it. So even if it is 4 whole hops away, at least you can piece together the next hop without too much aggravation.
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Offline _K_

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 08:39:08 pm »
I would suggest setting it to give distance not just "away", but "away from X" where X is either a homeworld or the nearest player system.
On a map like spokes this still might yield quite alot of candidates, but in general it should better than the current system, without adding any special abilities or rules, or directly nerfing the hybrid again.
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Offline Valorian_Nova

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 04:42:46 am »
Actually with a hybrid tracker I would have it take a minute or two and point you 1-2 sectors towards the signal.  If the signal is only 3 sectors out I would probably just go 1.  Once you have a direction and if you know it's 3 hops out then you can plan on that for the next scan.  Although if you could adjust the hybrid signal like you can with the minor factions where it could be anywhere from 3 sector's to anywhere in the galaxy I might increase the range on the hybrid tracker.  It shouldn't be able to instantly find it but it should at least point you in the right direction.  At any rate that's my thought on it.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 09:08:14 am »
Quote from: TechSY730 on August 13, 2012, 03:49:51 pm
Quote from: Kahuna on August 12, 2012, 02:19:00 pm
Quote from: TechSY730 on August 12, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
It used to be 4 hops out, but it was nerfed to 3 hops out for this sort of reason.

What patch was this?
EDIT: In 5.041 patch the signal was always 4-7 hops away.

Prerelease 5.028 was when the last nerf of the place distance (though the notes don't specify how far, I'm pretty sure I remember Kieth said 3 somewhere)

And for the 4-7 hops away, yea, that's too far. That would be a bug. Mantis it along with save? If at all possible, if you have a save of the super hybrid before it leaves what command station it was guarding to build the signal, that would be best for debugging, but that may not be feasible. It would also be nice to see a save of the hybrid with the placed signal at 6 or 7 hops away, as that is nasty.  :o
Here is 3 save files from the The DOOMM!10/10 The Tank/Crafty Spire (I have backups of all the auto saves and everything(201 saves)). 1 before the Advanced Hybrid spawned (Before A.Hybrid.sav) and 1 before the signal spawned (Before signal.sav) and 1 after I won the game (The DOOOMM!!.sav). In the doom save I've scouted everything so you can see the hybrids and signals.

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9234
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 11:27:04 am by Kahuna »
Logged
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 01:16:51 pm »
Ok this is a perfect example of what I was talking about^^ To be able to scout far enough you need to clear almost every planet ~3-5 hops away (in every direction) of tachyon guardians and other stuff.

I guess MarkIII and IV Scouts are an absolute MUST if Spirecraft Scouts are unavailable. Take a look at this save arrrr.

Scouting all of that with MarkII Scouts took about 2 hours or something. More than 1 hour. In that screenshot I've cleared a lot of the visible planets with my fleet and sent a cap of MarkII scouts as far as they can get in every direction. Still haven't found the antagonizer and Dyson Gatlings are attacking my home planet :(
Logged
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Hybrid Signal Tracker
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 01:32:36 pm »
Those following this discussion may be interested in these changes:

Quote from: 5.061 Release Notes
     Fixed a bug where super-hybrid logic for determining which planets were the right distance into AI territory for a dyson antagonizer was considering nebulae to be non-AI territory.
        Thanks to Kahuna for the report leading to this discovery.

    Reduced the distance-into-AI-territory super-hybrids try to plant dyson antagonizers by 1, hopefully making them less excruciating to find.
        Thanks to quite a lot of players for public lamentations regarding this.
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