How far is the Dyson Sphere supposed to spread its influence?

[Radiant Phoenix]

I ask because on 4/10 I find that it rarely goes far beyond its own system until I liberate it. Part of the problem is anti-heavy guard posts that just slaughter its gatlings because the gatlings ignore them.

Once upon a time, I put it on 10/10 and it went way out. Perhaps I should go back to doing that.

Also, is it supposed to not function when unobserved?

[CaptainTaz]

I know that on 10/10, it was able to travel from it's sector to my home sector while still captured (See my game in AAR, session 2 IIRC)

I think it depends on how many gatlings it can produce, and how far they can get. Gatling production is also slowed by faction intensity iirc.

[Shrugging Khan]

I think range is unlimited, but they can only travel within supply. Max. number of Gatlings is limited by AIP. Spawn rate is determined by faction intensity.

[NickAragua]

Isn't there also some damage applied to a Laser Gatling every time it jumps into an 'out-of-supply' system?

[Radiant Phoenix]

A Mk4 Needler Guardpost will one-shot a Dyson Gatling. And the Dyson Gatlings will just ignore it. A Mk3 Laser Guardpost will two-volley it. The Dyson Gatlings will ignore that too.

Perhaps the Gatlings should actually try to deal with threats like this?

[Toranth]

I think range is unlimited, but they can only travel within supply. Max. number of Gatlings is limited by AIP. Spawn rate is determined by faction intensity.

As far as I know, they do not require supply, nor do they take damage by jumping when out of supply.
Instead, they just have behavior limiters:
Hostile to all Gatlings can travel anywhere, but tend to wander around the systems near the Dyson Sphere looking for targets.  As targets die, the Gatlings will move on to more distant systems.
Friendly Gatlings will wander through human controlled systems, only occasionally jumping 1 deep into AI territory as part of an attack on AI targets, or when travelling between human systems.

I know I've seen hostile Gatlings show up 20 or more jumps away from the Dyson sphere to attack (and kill) me.  Thanks, Advanced Hybrids.
But, as Phoenix said, ever since the re-balance, Guardposts have been slaughtering the Gatlings, so they rarely survive long in AI space.

[Radiant Phoenix]

I think there are two ways of resolving this:

• Make Gatlings immune to guard posts, and have them continue to ignore them. Maybe radar dampening, or maybe a rare hull type like Turret.
• Make Gatlings kill guard posts, and give them some sort of bonus so they don't get eternally slaughtered in their home system.

If we're taking the second, and an attack bonus, the bonus should either be "anti-stationary" (but not photon lances, because CPU load), or against the most problematic guard post hull types:

• Medium (Needler)
• Neutron (Laser)
• Polycrystal (Arachnid)
• Ultra-Heavy (Disassembler)

We could also have them spawn in waves, so they form more than just a trickle to be easily nommed.

[Vacuity]

As I remember, one of the main reasons they don't shoot at guardposts was so that interaction with the Vengeful and Retaliatory AIs in particular wouldn't cause a Game Over for the player through no fault of their own.

I personally think that the "doesn't shoot guardposts" behaviour should remain unless there's a genuinely better general solution to the above problem.

I also, personally, don't particularly feel that Gatlings need to be made immune or semi-immune to guardposts; if the Dyson Sphere was capable of wiping out multiple planets' worth of AI structures, it would already have done so before the game began.  In other words, it makes sense that at the beginning of the game, the dysons are hemmed into a single planet and are likely to stay that way without direct or indirect assistance from the player.

So in answer to the thread title's question: as far as you help them to.

Buffing them up a bit may be a smart move though.

Edit: Also, spawning them in waves makes a good bit of sense too.

[NickAragua]

Edit: Also, spawning them in waves makes a good bit of sense too.

+1 big time. That's one of the major problems that the gatlings have - they spawn one at a time and the one guy doesn't really get the chance to do any damage before getting one-shotted.

[kasnavada]

if the Dyson Sphere was capable of wiping out multiple planets' worth of AI structures, it would already have done so before the game began.  In other words, it makes sense that at the beginning of the game, the dysons are hemmed into a single planet and are likely to stay that way without direct or indirect assistance from the player.

How about this:
- boost dyson power around the dyson sphere (like +300% in it's own system, and lower farther from it). Remove the "don't kill guard post behaviour".
- create a AI building which one-shots dysons, and place it in multiple places in the AI's space and at the dyson planet
- add defences to the planet itself so it's WAY harder to set it non-hostile to the player.


Basically the AI recognised that it was dangerous and enabled specific firepower. Then 2 choices: leave it hostile to all by "only" removing the anti-dyson or taking the planet.

[Radiant Phoenix]

Another idea: make Dyson Gatlings avoid guardposts that they expect to kill them.

[Vacuity]

How about this:
- boost dyson power around the dyson sphere (like +300% in it's own system, and lower farther from it). Remove the "don't kill guard post behaviour".
- create a AI building which one-shots dysons, and place it in multiple places in the AI's space and at the dyson planet
- add defences to the planet itself so it's WAY harder to set it non-hostile to the player.

This wouldn't solve problematic interactions with Counterattack guardposts, or Vengeful and Retaliatory AIs.

[kasnavada]

Some but not all.

Since dysons get one-shot from the second when they get out, it's not an issue unless you free the Dyson.

If you do liberate them... yes.

[Bognor]

Similar thread from mid-2013:

The Power of a Sun in my Hand... ARGH A GUARD POST!!!

Also, is it supposed to not function when unobserved?

From my memory of really old threads, I believe this is intended behavior.  But even a scout will permanently "wake up" the Sphere.  This is one of many reasons to scout far and early.

As I remember, one of the main reasons they don't shoot at guardposts was so that interaction with the Vengeful and Retaliatory AIs in particular wouldn't cause a Game Over for the player through no fault of their own.

True today, but the Dyson Sphere predates either of those AIs.  I thought it was about not freeing sleeping AI ships associated with the guard posts, as those ships could then attack the player.

[CaptainTaz]

Similar thread from mid-2013:

The Power of a Sun in my Hand... ARGH A GUARD POST!!!

Also, is it supposed to not function when unobserved?

From my memory of really old threads, I believe this is intended behavior.  But even a scout will permanently "wake up" the Sphere.  This is one of many reasons to scout far and early.

As I remember, one of the main reasons they don't shoot at guardposts was so that interaction with the Vengeful and Retaliatory AIs in particular wouldn't cause a Game Over for the player through no fault of their own.

True today, but the Dyson Sphere predates either of those AIs.  I thought it was about not freeing sleeping AI ships associated with the guard posts, as those ships could then attack the player.

I don't remember if it was the wiki or in-game text, but I remember reading somewhere that they do not attack things that will release threat (Like barracks and guard posts)