How do you handle getting a controlgroup into current sector?

[Sentenza]

So, I'm in Sector X, it is somewhere over there =>, somewhere next/near it (in another sector) there's my engineers, controlgrouped into group 4, and I'd like them to move here, is there a simple and non-obtrusive way to do this?

When I press 4, my view automatically moves to them, switching sectors, and I have to reorient myself, open the map, rightclick into the right sector, then enter that sector myself, zoom back to where I wanted them and rightclick there.

Very awkward.

Did you guys just get used to that, never bring in engineers, or is there a way to do this more easily?

[Diazo]

Because engineers die so fast on hostile planets (they take extra damage), I unlock Repair Stations if my fleet composition makes repair in AI territory necessary. Otherwise, no, engineers do not come into hostile territory generally.

If it's a neutral system that you are trying to build something, V+RightClick to set the engineers to FRD works on the galaxy map.

The G for GroupMoveOveride also works on the galaxy map.

To move to a specific location in system requires the method you use, or the construction of a Rally Post. (Found on the SUP tab I think?)

Now that you make me think on it, this is not a command I use at all. Mind you, I abuse the pause button a lot to issue orders as soon as ships enter a system so that gets me roughly the same effect as what you describe.

My $0.02 for what it is worth.

D.

edit: One thing to note is that control group selection works on the galaxy map. So you can hit tab, hit your control group number, then issue the move order on the galaxy map to the controlgroup units.

Note that this does change the 'current system' however, so you have to leftclick on the destination system to exit the galaxy map, if you just hit tab you will be in the system the controlgroup was in when you pressed 4 to select the controlgroup.

[Sentenza]

Hmm, basically what I'd like is to be in sector X, hit 4, which selects a group of ships in sector y, then rightclick and have them move here, is that possible?

But thanks for the comments

[Hearteater]

The problem is you can never have a unit selected and not be viewing its system.  As a result, selecting a control group must switch your system view.  You'll notice if you ever split a control group over two systems, selecting that control group in one of those systems only selects the ships in that control group that are also in that system.

I very rarely bring Engineers into hostile or even neutral territory.  They are far too easy to kill.  Engineer IIIs are a little different because they cloak.  But still, I generally keep that stuff at home, and bring a Mobile Repair Station if I need in-field repairs.

In time you will probably find you use control groups a lot less than you expect.  Maybe more accurately, control groups in AIW are very disposable.  I remake control groups all the time.  I rarely have something like "Control 1" is some combination of ships, because that doesn't work when they are split across systems and replacements are hard to coordinate getting into the control group properly so I'm just going to be constantly remaking it.

[Winge]

And I handle control groups much differently than Hearteater, lol.  I have a specific pattern to my control groups (which, incidentally, changes based on what map options or sometimes even what ships I have available).  I even mix and match at times...in one of my current games, #1 is fast ships (Fighters, Bombers, Bomber SS, etc), #2 is long-range bombardment (Frigates, most other Starships, Bombards, etc), #4 is a combination of Insta-Kill Immune Ships and my Champion (for raiding eye worlds), #5 is the Champion alone (makes using abilities easier), and #7 is Raid Starships (don't use those as much with a champion, without the champion, I put them in group #5).  If I have other special ships (Cloakers + Enclaves, Penetrators, Golems, etc), they will typically get their own control group.  Fallen Spire takes over control group #1 (along with most of the galaxy).  When I lose units from a control group, they are repeat-built at my 'dock world' (typically my Homeworld) in FRD.  I then add them to their control group as I see fit.

Basically, control groups are a preference.  I'm somewhat CDO,* so excessive organization of control groups is how I make best use of my ships. YMMV.

As for engineers on hostile worlds, one option is Engineers + Transports + Cloakers.  Works well when you plan to take a world, as you simply add a Transport with colony ships (I wouldn't put them in the same transport as the engies, just in case).  Usually, it's more efficient to just take the losses and repair later, but this can help on a tougher planet.  Don't forget to check enemy ranges first 



*For those who don't get the reference, that's OCD, but in alphabetical order.  Like it should be.

[Sentenza]

Sorry about mentioning engineers, I shouldn't have, it's mostly about fighting ships.

Due to the bosts about micromanagement elimination I'm just amazed at how this works, why can't you assign shiptypes to controlgroups, and have them automatically join and follow as they get rebuilt, why can't you stay in current sector, press a controlgroup and rightclick so they immediately come, without having to go through... ah, nevermind

Thanks a lot for the insight in how you handle things, I've mostly just had one large blob, but wasn't really happy with that.

[Toranth]

Sorry about mentioning engineers, I shouldn't have, it's mostly about fighting ships.

Due to the bosts about micromanagement elimination I'm just amazed at how this works, why can't you assign shiptypes to controlgroups, and have them automatically join and follow as they get rebuilt, why can't you stay in current sector, press a controlgroup and rightclick so they immediately come, without having to go through... ah, nevermind

Thanks a lot for the insight in how you handle things, I've mostly just had one large blob, but wasn't really happy with that.

You can assign a control group to a unit producer (like a space dock), and all units produced there will automatically belong to the assigned control group.
You can assign a unit producer to give auto-move orders to other systems.
You can use the Redirector Rally Post to have ships automatically move to other sectors.  By chaining the Redirector Posts, you can keep expanding your movement to the front as far as you need to, without needing to go back and update each previous post.
Finally, you can use the 'Find' button (the magnifying glass) on the Galaxy map to select all units of a type, no matter what system they are in, and issue move orders to all of them at once.  You can actually select/deselect all units of that type in any individual system using this feature, and thus give orders to some systems but not others.

But as other have stated, there is no way I know of to select a control group in a different system without switching there, or to highlight an entire group split among multiple systems. 

[Hearteater]

Setting up Space Docks for specific groups is more trouble than its worth to me.  Select all, press L as needed to reduce the group.  Unselect specific ship types as needed.  Now, if I could assign Ship Types to a Control Group, that I would use a lot.

Note that I do use Control Group 0 to assign my Engineers to, and I set that to ignore Auto-FRD.  So I can easily make Engineers ignore the global Auto-FRD I have them set on by adding them to Group 0, or removing them.  But I don't really use it to order them around.

[keith.lamothe]

Welcome to the forums


Several times I've tried to design out a more thorough-going set of "fleet controls" with to make it easy to have cross-galaxy control of persistent groups with a target composition that gets filled up by production (if you like), etc... but every time it comes out looking a lot like "some developer thought this would be cool to have in a game" and not at all like "this would be a good fit for AI War as it actually is".

So it's not that your thoughts haven't been thunk (probably), it's just that the actual game doesn't really need (or probably even benefit from) that kind of stuff.  As it is I think we went overboard on the garrison controls

[Sentenza]

Thanks for the welcome, also, thanks to everyone for the replies, sorry if I sounded a bit harsh in the beginning

I don't know about more advanced tactics, but at the moment I have multiple control groups with each ship type being in one group (usually ligtningfast/fast/slow), and I basically have one "fleet".

Things might have to change for later stages in the game *shrugs*, but for now, it works fine.

The issue I have, is with getting replacements in, though, if you are looking for suggestions, these are mine:

1) Let shiptypes be assigned to a controlgroup (by hovering over the buildicon and pressing the number you like)
2) When you select a controlgroup don't change the sector view, unless it is doubletapped
3) When you select a controlgroup, select all ships, even if other sectors
4) If you rightclick in a sector, ships outside that sector will move there, without having to manually ctrl-rightclick the wormhole or rightclick the sector on the map
5) New option for ship producing facilities: Send ships assigned to a controlgroup to the controlgroup (this could either be wherever most of the ships are, or more simply, the last location that controlgroup was ordered to go to)
6) If last select option was via a control group (opposed to doubleclicking a ship, or dragging a box or similar) then add newly produced ships from that controlgroup to the selection.

So that basically, in the end you'd set up factories for autorepeat production, assign shiptypes to controlgroups, go fight with your controlgroups, and have lost ships automatically be produced, be added to your selection, and sent to wherever you last sent that controlgroup to.

Sounds fun, no?


At any rate, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not making any demands, I know the options available, and up there are my humble suggestions for (in my eyes) improvements.

In the meantime I'll use the options at hand, thanks a lot for the warm welcome and the helpful comments!


Edit: @Keith: Sorry, I have to disagree, the game desperately needs this kind of stuff, but obviously, it's all opinions, and objectively speaking, yours matters a whole truckload more than mine ever will

[Diazo]

2) When you select a controlgroup don't change the sector view, unless it is doubletapped
3) When you select a controlgroup, select all ships, even if other sectors

I'm pretty sure these were looked at before weren't they?

If I recall there were game engine limitations that prevented them being possible?

It has been a while though but I'm pretty sure the game engine limits what can be done here.

Last time this discussion came up, the search on the galaxy map was implemented. It kind of gives you want you are looking for, you can select all types of a ship in the galaxy map filter and then give them all a move order to a specific system. You lose it as soon as you leave the galaxy map though so it's not really what you are looking for.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Cross-planet selection would be very difficult, yes.  There's a kind of it that can be had on the galaxy view via the find tool, but that's it.

[TechSY730]

Doesn't it have to do with how you decided to "chain" the data structures managing selection, and changing it would require so much code change it isn't worth it at the moment?

[keith.lamothe]

Nah, it's nothing complex, there's just a "List<ForegroundObject> Selected", and it's used in a lot of ways that would be bad if not all units in the list were on the same planet.

[Cyborg]

Nah, it's nothing complex, there's just a "List<ForegroundObject> Selected", and it's used in a lot of ways that would be bad if not all units in the list were on the same planet.

The find tool could use some modernization.