Hi!

[BobTheJanitor]

It might be better to try golems on easy for a game. They do make things incredibly easy, however it will allow you to get a feel for which golem is best for what without burying yourself in AIP and resource producers in order to test them out. The tactics you use for a cursed golem are different from a botnet golem which is different from an artillery golem and so on. If you want to jump straight to medium or even hard it won't hurt anything of course, but it might be an aggravation to build the infrastructure to support a golem that doesn't end up being very useful versus whatever AI type you're fighting. Plus sometimes it's just fun to completely stomp all over the AI without any repercussions.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, to be honest the "medium" version is just a pain in the rear   That's actually more or less the way the golems were balanced in the past: massive AIP and energy costs (used to have some other provoking-reinforcement stuff, too).  Not many folks used golems, because they didn't find those costs fun.

But enough people liked it that way that we kept the option.

I'm more a fan of picking Hard, or Easy with some other big difficulty boost (like a higher AI difficulty or a hard AI type, or nasty minor factions, etc).

[athros]

It might be better to try golems on easy for a game. They do make things incredibly easy, however it will allow you to get a feel for which golem is best for what without burying yourself in AIP and resource producers in order to test them out. The tactics you use for a cursed golem are different from a botnet golem which is different from an artillery golem and so on. If you want to jump straight to medium or even hard it won't hurt anything of course, but it might be an aggravation to build the infrastructure to support a golem that doesn't end up being very useful versus whatever AI type you're fighting. Plus sometimes it's just fun to completely stomp all over the AI without any repercussions.

Hmm...I didn't think about it like that. I might have to look at putting in the base Minor Factions too then, if I go easy with the Golems.

Yea, to be honest the "medium" version is just a pain in the rear   That's actually more or less the way the golems were balanced in the past: massive AIP and energy costs (used to have some other provoking-reinforcement stuff, too).  Not many folks used golems, because they didn't find those costs fun.

But enough people liked it that way that we kept the option.

I'm more a fan of picking Hard, or Easy with some other big difficulty boost (like a higher AI difficulty or a hard AI type, or nasty minor factions, etc).

Does Hard not have the infrastructure needed? Or does it just give the AI access to the Golems, and you still have the major infrastructure + AIP bump?

[BobTheJanitor]

Does Hard not have the infrastructure needed? Or does it just give the AI access to the Golems, and you still have the major infrastructure + AIP bump?

Hard = Easy, except you get waves every once in a while full of big angry ships that you're supposed to need a golem or two to deal with. I have yet to try hard, though, so I don't know how hard these waves are. Otherwise though it's equivalent to Easy. You don't get AIP increases for rebuilding golems, and their energy needs are something like 1/10th of what they are on medium.

[athros]

Does Hard not have the infrastructure needed? Or does it just give the AI access to the Golems, and you still have the major infrastructure + AIP bump?

Hard = Easy, except you get waves every once in a while full of big angry ships that you're supposed to need a golem or two to deal with. I have yet to try hard, though, so I don't know how hard these waves are. Otherwise though it's equivalent to Easy. You don't get AIP increases for rebuilding golems, and their energy needs are something like 1/10th of what they are on medium.

Interesting....I just might have to do it on hard. Why isn't the current hard Moderate and make hard have the AIP + infrastructure in addition? Just curious

[TechSY730]

Does Hard not have the infrastructure needed? Or does it just give the AI access to the Golems, and you still have the major infrastructure + AIP bump?

Hard = Easy, except you get waves every once in a while full of big angry ships that you're supposed to need a golem or two to deal with. I have yet to try hard, though, so I don't know how hard these waves are. Otherwise though it's equivalent to Easy. You don't get AIP increases for rebuilding golems, and their energy needs are something like 1/10th of what they are on medium.

Interesting....I just might have to do it on hard. Why isn't the current hard Moderate and make hard have the AIP + infrastructure in addition? Just curious

As of 5.001, it is that way, at least up to (and including) level 9. (After that, the AI starts cheating)

There are some units the AI does not get at lower levels that they do get at higher levels, so you will see a little more variety as you go up the difficulties. (Most everything they can use is available to them at level 7, though a few don't spawn until level . Also, the chance of "tough" infrastructure spawning goes up with difficulty.

So yes, while the main rules of the AI stay the same for all difficulties (for <=9 at least), the AI does get a few new toys to play with at the higher levels.

[BobTheJanitor]

Interesting....I just might have to do it on hard. Why isn't the current hard Moderate and make hard have the AIP + infrastructure in addition? Just curious

We're talking specifically about golems easy, moderate, and hard here. What techsy said above doesn't exactly apply, so just ignore that. (that was referring to the game difficulties in general, I think?) As far as why hard doesn't have the infrastructure requirements along with the waves, I'm not sure. Maybe Keith will come back by and shed some light on it. I'd bet it probably has to do with what he said earlier about nobody using golems because they were such a pain to manage before the changes. Although I still maintain my point that playing on medium golems is as much of a challenge as playing on hard golems, just a different type of challenge, so the 1/2 score modifier is a bit silly. But again, who pays attention to their score?

[Shrugging Khan]

Hard Golems are positively easy. Low energy costs, no AIP penalties, and the enemy waves are piss easy to defeat if you've got your flanks covered and some fleet ships ready to respond.

[chemical_art]

Hard Golems are positively easy. Low energy costs, no AIP penalties, and the enemy waves are piss easy to defeat if you've got your flanks covered and some fleet ships ready to respond.

I disagree, here is why:

Exogroups are special because functionally they are like spawned far away, not on planet like waves. As a result, the AI logic of "no suicide attacks" clicks in for them. If you put a fort or other substantial firepower force defending your border the exogroups camp outside your worlds. Eventually, they'll join in on another wave, and in the mean time they'll defend that world or other worlds (leaving a mess of MK V units roaming around). If they don't jump in a wave, they'll wait till another exo-wave, then two groups will ram through together. Unless your world is a fortress world, then they'll just wait for MORE help...

On lower AIP and difficulties, it doesn't really matter. But if you have two sources of exo-waves on higher difficulties at the 300+ range, the AI has the potential to spawn units faster then you can normally kill them. That is terrifying. This, combined with their hefty econ drain through attrition, can make a tough game. And it should be that way, because you still get to use those awesome things.

[TechSY730]

Interesting....I just might have to do it on hard. Why isn't the current hard Moderate and make hard have the AIP + infrastructure in addition? Just curious

We're talking specifically about golems easy, moderate, and hard here. What techsy said above doesn't exactly apply, so just ignore that. (that was referring to the game difficulties in general, I think?) As far as why hard doesn't have the infrastructure requirements along with the waves, I'm not sure. Maybe Keith will come back by and shed some light on it. I'd bet it probably has to do with what he said earlier about nobody using golems because they were such a pain to manage before the changes. Although I still maintain my point that playing on medium golems is as much of a challenge as playing on hard golems, just a different type of challenge, so the 1/2 score modifier is a bit silly. But again, who pays attention to their score?

Oops, that is what I get for not carefully reading a the last couple of posts. 

[keith.lamothe]

Exogroups are special because functionally they are like spawned far away, not on planet like waves. As a result, the AI logic of "no suicide attacks" clicks in for them. If you put a fort or other substantial firepower force defending your border the exogroups camp outside your worlds.

Er, they do?   They're not supposed to.  They do tend to trigger the "threshold" for other stalking threat, however.

Anyway, due to Shrugging Khan's boasting of having too easy a time with those, the broken-golems-hard exos are about 15% stronger now, on the average.  Some other tricky logic thrown in for good measure

[Shrugging Khan]

Anyway, due to Shrugging Khan's boasting of having too easy a time with those, the broken-golems-hard exos are about 15% stronger now, on the average.  Some other tricky logic thrown in for good measure

Come on, 15%? You insult me 
Although I've yet to try the new 9.0. Maybe on that they'll finally put up a fight!

I disagree, here is why:

Exogroups are special because functionally they are like spawned far away, not on planet like waves. As a result, the AI logic of "no suicide attacks" clicks in for them. If you put a fort or other substantial firepower force defending your border the exogroups camp outside your worlds. Eventually, they'll join in on another wave, and in the mean time they'll defend that world or other worlds (leaving a mess of MK V units roaming around). If they don't jump in a wave, they'll wait till another exo-wave, then two groups will ram through together. Unless your world is a fortress world, then they'll just wait for MORE help...

On lower AIP and difficulties, it doesn't really matter. But if you have two sources of exo-waves on higher difficulties at the 300+ range, the AI has the potential to spawn units faster then you can normally kill them. That is terrifying. This, combined with their hefty econ drain through attrition, can make a tough game. And it should be that way, because you still get to use those awesome things.

Attrition can be avoided easily by distracting the enemy with a few fleet ships, then moving the golem in at the right time and withdrawing it before they can turn to damage it heavily.

Until now, I've usually played diff 8.0, and the strike forces were flies on my windshield. All their fleet ships were busy chewing at my stationary defences, and the big hitters were unable to crack the shields in time before my fleet moved in and took them out in seconds - they aren't that tough, and lack versatility to defend themselves.
If the strike force stays at an AI planet until further notice, then that's worse for them, since I could easily take my time and move in to take them out. Their presence, after all, is announced.

[keith.lamothe]

Come on, 15%? You insult me 

Keep talking, bub, they're getting stronger as you speak

[chemical_art]

Exogroups are special because functionally they are like spawned far away, not on planet like waves. As a result, the AI logic of "no suicide attacks" clicks in for them. If you put a fort or other substantial firepower force defending your border the exogroups camp outside your worlds.

Er, they do?  They're not supposed to.  They do tend to trigger the "threshold" for other stalking threat, however.

Anyway, due to Shrugging Khan's boasting of having too easy a time with those, the broken-golems-hard exos are about 15% stronger now, on the average.  Some other tricky logic thrown in for good measure

I may have a save buried somewhere, but they do camp out if you put a fort down. I'll dig it up later.

UPDATE: Checked the saved game, and the "no suicide attack" behavior was gone. I am really surprised, I distinctly remember fighting MK V units on enemy worlds that bordered my own and there was no other way MK V units could have spawned at that time. I also remember desperately firing lightning warheads through wormholes to challenge to hoards of enemies camping out. Regardless, the AI doesn't do it anymore, so the worry is gone.

[TechSY730]

The Armored, Black-Widow, Artillery, and Regenerator Golems used in exogalactic strikeforces are now different than the "standard" AI golems (like those used by the Golemite AI Type). The main difference is that they lack the 1/10th-health-of-a-normal-golem rule.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL!!!!