Author Topic: Hacktastic!  (Read 1287 times)

Offline Qatu

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Hacktastic!
« on: December 11, 2013, 05:33:50 am »
Step 1: find planets with advanced factory, starship constructor, all fabricators
Step 2: clean them, put hacker on each
Step 3: start hack for factory and constructor while paused
Step 4: when 5minutes left on step 3 hacks, pause and start all fabricator hacks
Step 5: when hacks complete, for all fabricators build a new fabricator hacker to properly finish the hack
Step 6: have everything with -1000000 hacking progress but without any hacking response

 The save attached shows this (it's 2 second before step 5) and also multiple super hybrids, I though there was only supposed to be one super hybrid at a time. I've had up to 9 simultaneously this game.

Offline Bognor

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 07:04:31 am »
I though there was only supposed to be one super hybrid at a time
Not sure about that.  With three homeworlds, diff 9/9 or 10/10, Hybrid Hives between 4/4 and ~7/7, Advanced Hybrids 10/10, I frequently get 3-5 super hybrids.

Anyway, looks like you've hacked hacking :o
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:13:26 am by Bognor »
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Offline Qatu

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 07:31:17 am »
Anyway, looks like you've hacked hacking :o

 Even though this exemple is pretty extreme it's unlikely to be possible to pull a hack everything off like this unless the game is already mostly won as was the case here. But it's useful knowledge to use in regular games for exemple to hack 3 things at once when hacking progress would only allow hacking one thing.

 Btw, just fur fun, i was curious so i put down another hacker to see the kind of response that would happen at -1000000 and... it was a rather noticeable response :D

Offline Diazo

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 10:05:27 am »
I ran across this effect in my most recent game.

There was a Munitions Booster backup server 2 hops out from my homeworld so the very first thing I did was hack that server as the booster is one of my favorite units.

I was actually surprised how gentle the hacking response was, even for AIP 10 on the first hack of the game.

My fleet of Mk I units (with a couple Mk II) did not even take seriously losses defending the hacker. (No turrets as 2 hops is outside supply.)

I did end up with a -30 hacking progress afterwards as I had done nothing to increase the AIP yet, but that did not affect the hack itself.

I wonder, how feasible is it to time the hacking cost so that it is spread out over the time of the hack? (And resetting if the hack fails)

IE: A cost 50 hack that takes five minutes would 'cost' a hacking point every 6 seconds that the hack is active.

This might require tweaking the response as a hack would now cause the response to increase during the hack as the hacking progress is consumed, but it would pretty much get rid of all these abuses of the system that are happening.

(Assuming this is reasonable from a programming standpoint of course.)

D.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2013, 10:33:59 am »
IE: A cost 50 hack that takes five minutes would 'cost' a hacking point every 6 seconds that the hack is active.

This might require tweaking the response as a hack would now cause the response to increase during the hack as the hacking progress is consumed, but it would pretty much get rid of all these abuses of the system that are happening.

Actually this isn't a bad idea and might address some of my concerns over hacking being too easy.

Offline Oralordos

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 11:36:59 am »
I would guess that the reason why this isn't in place already is so that failed hacks don't cost hacking progress for nothing.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 11:48:52 am »
I would guess that the reason why this isn't in place already is so that failed hacks don't cost hacking progress for nothing.
Erm:
(And resetting if the hack fails)

Offline Toranth

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 04:49:49 pm »
Anyway, looks like you've hacked hacking :o
Even though this exemple is pretty extreme it's unlikely to be possible to pull a hack everything off like this unless the game is already mostly won as was the case here. But it's useful knowledge to use in regular games for exemple to hack 3 things at once when hacking progress would only allow hacking one thing.
Yeah, I tried this once.  It was neat to have have everything in the universe, but actually pretty difficult.  Since you can't defend everything (or much of anything), you need to hope that no Tachyon Bursts occur (or save scum a LOT).  Also, cleanup on the thousands of threat and zombie ships that occur was nasty. 
I've never done it again, though, since it wasn't much fun to finish that game.  Took too long to build everything, the game was almost over anyway, and I really didn't need it.

That said, I do like the ability to do simultaneous hacks.  Which leads to:
I wonder, how feasible is it to time the hacking cost so that it is spread out over the time of the hack? (And resetting if the hack fails)
IE: A cost 50 hack that takes five minutes would 'cost' a hacking point every 6 seconds that the hack is active.
My problem with this is that the AI hacking response goes up so fast as the HaP goes negative that a large hack (like an Advanced Factory) could be nearly impossible unless you already have a large buffer.
There's already a similar response built in to the game:  Multiply the hacking response by the number of simultaneous hacks ongoing.  Right now, that multiplier only seems to apply to having multiple Hacker foldouts active on a single planet.  Expand it to be multiple planets, and I think we'd be fine.  Potentially, re-define it to be the number of objects being hacked simultaneously galaxy wide.  That'd make the 1-system, 3-fabs harder to hack, which is probably a good thing.



Btw, just fur fun, i was curious so i put down another hacker to see the kind of response that would happen at -1000000 and... it was a rather noticeable response :D
Isn't it grand?  How long did it take you computer to finish calculating the response?  And how long did it take before you completely died (or the game crashed)?  My games usually crash before the response can actually kill me...

Offline Qatu

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Re: Hacktastic!
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 05:31:21 pm »
Btw, just fur fun, i was curious so i put down another hacker to see the kind of response that would happen at -1000000 and... it was a rather noticeable response :D
Isn't it grand?  How long did it take you computer to finish calculating the response?  And how long did it take before you completely died (or the game crashed)?  My games usually crash before the response can actually kill me...

 A dark cloud of a couple thousand raid ships suddenly appeared and then game crashed.