Guardian numbers

[chemical_art]

Guys...

load up a new game with full visibility,

and tell if I'm the only one with all the worlds at start having max guardians to begin with?

[Faulty Logic]

You aren't.

[orzelek]

I sense evil plan to fix the 10/10 bug.
And curb the champions flying around a bit. Wrong type of guardian = dead champion.

[chemical_art]

Stopped my new AI War game.

Max guardians simply is not fun. Waaay to grindy for early game.

[TechSY730]

Something funky seems to be going on in the initial game generation process more widely. In addition to gaurdians, we have also had reports of excessive core shield generators and counter attack guard posts.

[Hearteater]

CSG Spawning Stats from games on a 60-planet map:

	-A-	-B-	-C-	-D-	-E-
7/7	5	4	11	14	9
8/8	5	4	11	15	9
9/9	5	4	10	17	9
10/10	5	4	10	19	9

Guardian Spawning Rules:
7/7: 1 Guardian per Guard Post, including Wormhole Guard Posts, Brutal Guard Posts, but not Special Forces, +1 for the Command Station
8/8 and 9/9: Twice as many as 7/7
10/10: Three times as many as 7/7

Guardians are NOT spawning next to the human homeworld(s), which is correct.

[keith.lamothe]

The counter-post proliferation is on my list for next release.

And I just put the guardian thing there.

Guardian Spawning Rules:
7/7: 1 Guardian per Guard Post, including Wormhole Guard Posts, Brutal Guard Posts, but not Special Forces, +1 for the Command Station
8/8 and 9/9: Twice as many as 7/7
10/10: Three times as many as 7/7

Sounds like the main issue is them spawning on the WHGPs, I think.

Not sure if it did that before, but the number of WHGPs varies so much that it's kinda asking for pain.

[Hearteater]

Yeah, the WHGP Guardians can easily double the number of Guardians initially in a system from what I saw.  Or more.  I saw some 5 GPs + 6 WHGP systems.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, and planets with 10+ wormholes are certainly not unheard of, and most AI types get more than one WHGP per WH.

... um, yea, that would hurt

[Hearteater]

You mean something like this?

[chemical_art]

Keith, is it intended that max number of guardians are spawned at start? Because for me that is the biggest issue right now.

I can understand the AI having 38 MK V guardians if it has been under siege a long while...but having that at game start? Eww.

[chemical_art]

You mean something like this?

Exactly.

For me the biggest thing is the timer.

[Hearteater]

You mean something like this?

Exactly.

For me the biggest thing is the timer.

When Keith removes WHGPs spawning Guardians at the start, that system will go from 120 Guardians to 36 Guardians.  Note that image was on 10/10, so a 9/9 game would have 60 right now, and 18 after removing WHGP spawning initial Guardians.

Also, is 1/2/3 Guardians per Guard Post actually the cap?

[chemical_art]

You mean something like this?

Exactly.

For me the biggest thing is the timer.

When Keith removes WHGPs spawning Guardians at the start, that system will go from 120 Guardians to 36 Guardians.  Note that image was on 10/10, so a 9/9 game would have 60 right now, and 18 after removing WHGP spawning initial Guardians.

Also, is 1/2/3 Guardians per Guard Post actually the cap?

I don't care what the cap is.

Short of 10/10, I don't think the ai, on every world, should be at guardian cap at start for every world.

[Hearteater]

I don't care what the cap is.

Short of 10/10, I don't think the ai, on every world, should be at guardian cap at start for every world.

I don't think you are following me.  Right now, on 10/10, the AI gets 3 Guardians per Guard Post.  But what is the cap?  If the cap is 10 Guardians per Guard Post, then the AI isn't at cap initially.  So are you suddenly okay with it getting 3 per Guard Post to start with if that isn't the cap?  Or is 3 per Guard Post at 1 second into the game too much?  That's what I was referring to.