Author Topic: Gravity Effects Delayed?  (Read 1405 times)

Offline chemical_art

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Gravity Effects Delayed?
« on: February 20, 2011, 09:44:14 pm »
Gravity effects from units such as the Gravity Guardian, Gravity Drains, and Gravity Defense posts are almost delayed in my experience. Sometimes it doesn't change a battle's outcome, but much more often it does. I can tell you as a blitzing nenzul user that you most certainly can, through user trickery. But the AI does so as well. How they do so, I do not know.

A documented example: Nenzul younglings are often defeated through attrition if you slow them down. Gravity Defenses, with millions of HP with turret armor, seemed perfect to defend the hoards. But moments after the picture below is shown, the units blow through the guard post line. Most were eventually stopped, but they were well within firing distance of the turrets despite the turrets on paper able to delay them twice outside their range, making the turrets having an effective range of half what they claimed. This alone is distressing, but many units that followed this initial group blowed through the guardians completely, which feels very wrong. I felt the 5k I spent on gravity defenses should have slowed down the nenzul much earlier. Other, slower units still suffer a great delay, so the gravity's strongest defense of delaying units out of range is greatly diminished.




I attached the game file. If you pause immediately, warp to the planet on the most left on the galaxy view the event occurs right at the station.


I am strongly considering putting this up on mantis, but I was not sure if this is viewed as a problem and/or has been addressed beforehand.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 09:45:55 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 10:08:23 pm »
Thank you for the save to reproduce it.  I'm testing a fix now :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 10:26:45 pm »
Ok, fixed for 5.002, thanks :)
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 10:58:48 pm »
Awesome! I kept seeing this in my games and forgetting to report it. Glad to hear a fix is incoming!

Offline hullu

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 04:20:02 am »
Awesome! I kept seeing this in my games and forgetting to report it. Glad to hear a fix is incoming!
Heh same, noticed it dozens of times but somehow never remembered to whine about it =)

Offline Echo35

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 02:46:28 pm »
Well yeah, it's gotta factor in the speed of light and... oh well I guess it's a bug ;)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 02:51:19 pm »
Well yeah, it's gotta factor in the speed of light and... oh well I guess it's a bug ;)
Well, actually, if any kind of effect would propagate faster than c it'd be this ;)

This should be fixed in 5.002, which was released a little bit ago.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 09:51:23 pm »
Well yeah, it's gotta factor in the speed of light and... oh well I guess it's a bug ;)

Oh come one. The scale of this game is indeed huge, and ships can indeed get really fast, but nothing even approaching an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, or distances of more than (at most, like from one side of the planet space to another) a few light seconds. Yes, the speed of light would be a factor for the "new gravity" to settle in and take effect, but at these scales, you can pretty much consider it instantaneous, or a second at the worst.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 12:51:32 am »
Well if we want to get nerdy about it, gravity propagates at c, so if you really think that it's taking a second for it to take effect then the scale over which the grav turrets affect must be massive. And if we take that as a rough basis for scale, then even the slowest ships in the game are moving at ludicrous speeds. You'd have time dilation and all other sorts of weirdness going on with every ship. Of course, then you get the question of why a gravity turret slows down everything in its range anyhow. If it's simply a point generating a massive gravity field, like a miniature superdense star (but not a black hole, since we don't have an event horizon to contend with), then what you would really see is ships speeding up as they approach it and then slowing down as they fight their way out of its pull. Of course then they could always come at it at the correct angle and use the gravity to slingshot themselves without losing any velocity.

Possibly a more accurate technobabble reason for what the grav turrets do would be some sort of localized alteration of the laws of physics. Either some sci-fi magic that makes c shrink thereby setting the galactic speed limit to a much lower number, or maybe some sort of negative momentum field, if you want to get really weird. The rate at which this propagates you can make up on the spot, since we're already making stuff up in the first place. Explaining why this would only work on enemy ships and not your own is left as an exercise for the reader.

None of this makes any sense in the context of AI War, of course, because it doesn't even try to replicate Newtonian Physics, and I don't doubt that trying to do so for tens of thousands of ships at the same time would make all of our CPUs melt simultaneously.  ;D

Offline Echo35

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Re: Gravity Effects Delayed?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 11:29:30 am »
Well yeah, it's gotta factor in the speed of light and... oh well I guess it's a bug ;)

Oh come one. The scale of this game is indeed huge, and ships can indeed get really fast, but nothing even approaching an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, or distances of more than (at most, like from one side of the planet space to another) a few light seconds. Yes, the speed of light would be a factor for the "new gravity" to settle in and take effect, but at these scales, you can pretty much consider it instantaneous, or a second at the worst.

Hey now, it may be minimal, but OpenTTD factors in Quantum Time Dilation due to speed and altitude on your vehicle routing, why can't AI War? :P :P