Golems? In MY Spirecraft Exo-Wave?

[contingencyplan]

Well, it's apparently more likely than I would have thought, at any rate.

I'm playing against 2 7.3 AIs, randomed a Fortress Baron and a Neinzul Viral Enthusiast; the former has Hybrid Hives (regular) 3, and the latter has Astrotrains.

I started with 12 (!) planets (they were all clustered together, very few ingress points to the cluster, so seems doable?), so using Normal combat style and Ultra Low caps.

I also have the following options enabled:

• All expansions
• Cheats, though haven't used any
• 0 / 30 mins AI auto-progress
• Human Resistance Fighters 6
• Human Colony Rebellions 4
• Zenith Traders
• Zenith Dyson Sphere 7
• Fallen Spire 3
• Spire Civilian Leaders
• Broken Golems Moderate
• Spirecraft Hard 3

Why yes, I've only completed one full game, why do you ask?

Also, as far as the Fallen Spire progression, I've only gotten the first shard and built the first subspace receiver. I've also seen regular hives, though apparently there's a super-hive lurking around somewhere; haven't seen any other "plots" (I've avoided spoilers about both settings).

Still early on, I just had the AI launch the first Spirecraft exo-wave come through, and apparently they brought a friend - a Black Widow Golem! You can see this in the first screenshot. Another part of the exo wave (not pictured) brought an Artillery Golem. 

Is this normal behavior, or something I permitted with my options? I thought that setting the golems to medium would mean that they don't appear in exo-waves, but perhaps that only means that golem-specific exo-waves don't appear? And could this happen if Golems are turned off entirely?

The save is attached; I can also upload a few-minute earlier save, though multiple attempts may be necessary to reproduce this situation (as the exo-wave composition is apparently randomized when it launches).

And apologies if this should have been posted in the Tech Support subforum or on Mantis - I wanted to make sure that this wasn't intended behavior first.

[Wanderer]

Welcome to the forums!

I started with 12 (!) planets (they were all clustered together, very few ingress points to the cluster, so seems doable?), so using Normal combat style and Ultra Low caps.

Just an FYI, if you started with 12 Homeworlds the Exo waves get a *12 multiplier.  Welcome to pain.  That said...

Also, as far as the Fallen Spire progression, I've only gotten the first shard and built the first subspace receiver.

There are currently 3 methods to spawn Exo-Waves.  2 of them are AIP based, and those are Golem-Hard and Spire-Hard.  The third is Fallen Spire, and they'll start as soon as you begin any of the plotline.  Bear with, we'll get to the point eventually.  An Exo-Wave is an Exo-Wave, period.  They've got a list of ships they can purchase for however many 'points' the exo wave is allowed to get.  It build up in power as things go on.  Fallen Spire has a HUGE bank of points compared to either Spire or Golem Exos.  Spire Ships really PO the AI.  Btw, you're going to have a blast when you get the first city up with that many homeworlds.  I believe Keith once called my FS Fleetball a 'Radius of death' or somesuch.

Still early on, I just had the AI launch the first Spirecraft exo-wave come through, and apparently they brought a friend - a Black Widow Golem! You can see this in the first screenshot. Another part of the exo wave (not pictured) brought an Artillery Golem. 

Is this normal behavior, or something I permitted with my options? I thought that setting the golems to medium would mean that they don't appear in exo-waves, but perhaps that only means that golem-specific exo-waves don't appear? And could this happen if Golems are turned off entirely?

Yes, no, Correct, Yes.  Basically a golem is purchasable for an Exo.  Once that's involved, they can simply be purchased.  There aren't separate lists for Spire or Golem Exos (or FS for that matter, though it's VERY hard to get a H/K outside of FS)

And apologies if this should have been posted in the Tech Support subforum or on Mantis - I wanted to make sure that this wasn't intended behavior first.

Definately intended behavior.  On the other hand, it also works in your favor for Golem Exos when they send a couple of Siege Towers or somesuch and you chew them up.

I have a feeling Spireships will eventually get a balancing (similar to the Golems) and eventually it won't be so disproportionate.  Also, AI Golems are a lot weaker than player golems, so you're actually not fighting your own superweapons.

[contingencyplan]

Welcome to the forums!

I started with 12 (!) planets (they were all clustered together, very few ingress points to the cluster, so seems doable?), so using Normal combat style and Ultra Low caps.

Just an FYI, if you started with 12 Homeworlds the Exo waves get a *12 multiplier.  Welcome to pain.  That said...

Also, as far as the Fallen Spire progression, I've only gotten the first shard and built the first subspace receiver.

There are currently 3 methods to spawn Exo-Waves.  2 of them are AIP based, and those are Golem-Hard and Spire-Hard.  The third is Fallen Spire, and they'll start as soon as you begin any of the plotline.  Bear with, we'll get to the point eventually.  An Exo-Wave is an Exo-Wave, period.  They've got a list of ships they can purchase for however many 'points' the exo wave is allowed to get.  It build up in power as things go on.  Fallen Spire has a HUGE bank of points compared to either Spire or Golem Exos.  Spire Ships really PO the AI.  Btw, you're going to have a blast when you get the first city up with that many homeworlds.  I believe Keith once called my FS Fleetball a 'Radius of death' or somesuch.

Haha, that sounds like a blast. I fully expect to lose (I've reloaded my save 4 or 5 times now trying to survive the first exowave - sorry if that's considered scumsaving), but figure I'll give it a shot, and at least see some ship types I haven't come across yet.

Still early on, I just had the AI launch the first Spirecraft exo-wave come through, and apparently they brought a friend - a Black Widow Golem! You can see this in the first screenshot. Another part of the exo wave (not pictured) brought an Artillery Golem. 

Is this normal behavior, or something I permitted with my options? I thought that setting the golems to medium would mean that they don't appear in exo-waves, but perhaps that only means that golem-specific exo-waves don't appear? And could this happen if Golems are turned off entirely?

Yes, no, Correct, Yes.  Basically a golem is purchasable for an Exo.  Once that's involved, they can simply be purchased.  There aren't separate lists for Spire or Golem Exos (or FS for that matter, though it's VERY hard to get a H/K outside of FS)

And apologies if this should have been posted in the Tech Support subforum or on Mantis - I wanted to make sure that this wasn't intended behavior first.

Definately intended behavior.  On the other hand, it also works in your favor for Golem Exos when they send a couple of Siege Towers or somesuch and you chew them up.

I have a feeling Spireships will eventually get a balancing (similar to the Golems) and eventually it won't be so disproportionate.  Also, AI Golems are a lot weaker than player golems, so you're actually not fighting your own superweapons.

How are they weaker? The Black Widow Golem in that picture has the same health (200M), attack (140k x 50), and tractor beams (200x, 12000 range) as the player-controlled ones. I remember reading that the Golemite AI type has weaker golems, but didn't see whether that applied to the exo-waves.

And thanks for the quick reply and the welcome!

[Bognor]

How are they weaker? The Black Widow Golem in that picture has the same health (200M), attack (140k x 50), and tractor beams (200x, 12000 range) as the player-controlled ones. I remember reading that the Golemite AI type has weaker golems, but didn't see whether that applied to the exo-waves.

Golemite golems have 1/10th the health of player golems, but AI golems that arrive in exo-waves should have 1/2 the health of player golems.  You can see the various types through the reference tab.  Attacks and other statistics should all be the same, as far as I'm aware.  I'm not sure whether your settings affect the actual numbers, but the relative toughness of different golems shouldn't change.

[TechSY730]

How are they weaker? The Black Widow Golem in that picture has the same health (200M), attack (140k x 50), and tractor beams (200x, 12000 range) as the player-controlled ones. I remember reading that the Golemite AI type has weaker golems, but didn't see whether that applied to the exo-waves.

Golemite golems have 1/10th the health of player golems, but AI golems that arrive in exo-waves should have 1/2 the health of player golems.  You can see the various types through the reference tab.  Attacks and other statistics should all be the same, as far as I'm aware.  I'm not sure whether your settings affect the actual numbers, but the relative toughness of different golems shouldn't change.

Nope, only the exo-armored golem has 1/2 health. All the other exo-golems get full health. Have fun.

[doctorfrog]

And why aren't there any space centipedes in this game?

[PokerChen]

Hmmm. Perhaps the only way to prevent the AI from ever sending golems in your spirecraft exo might be to turn off the expansion.

And why aren't there any space centipedes in this game?

If we lobbied for a super astro-trains AI plot, perhaps...

[contingencyplan]

Hmmm. Perhaps the only way to prevent the AI from ever sending golems in your spirecraft exo might be to turn off the expansion.

And why aren't there any space centipedes in this game?

If we lobbied for a super astro-trains AI plot, perhaps...

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed (though as noted earlier, nowhere near a seasoned player) - in my current game, I've just taken to attacking the Astro Trains as they come through, but in my experience, they're more of an annoyance rather than something that has a significant affect on my strategy. Probably helps that I keep engineers and rebuilders on most of my planets (especially those that trains pass through), but still.

[TechSY730]

Hmmm. Perhaps the only way to prevent the AI from ever sending golems in your spirecraft exo might be to turn off the expansion.

And why aren't there any space centipedes in this game?

If we lobbied for a super astro-trains AI plot, perhaps...

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed (though as noted earlier, nowhere near a seasoned player) - in my current game, I've just taken to attacking the Astro Trains as they come through, but in my experience, they're more of an annoyance rather than something that has a significant affect on my strategy. Probably helps that I keep engineers and rebuilders on most of my planets (especially those that trains pass through), but still.

You're not the only one who thinks that Astro trains could use a little (or perhaps, a lot) of revamping (2734: Re-imagining Astro Trains http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2734)