Golems - countdown to extinction

[Lamerstein]

Hi to all rebels against the evil AI, keep up the good fight.

I recently started my first campaign in Zenith Remnant. Since I wanted to expirence all new features in this somehow test run I used 40 star map so I can be tight and cuddly with the AI and new kids on the block - golems. Now I want to talk a little about them.

1. Devourer Golem.  a.k.a "Run to the Hills" - This thing is nasty. Don't even try to fight it with ships, just run away. After a few tries I found that he just goes from one wormhole to the next and if you stay well out of his way, your ships are safe. Just put them on the other end of the system. Not so scary but you have to pay attention where is heading next. And you can use it when he preys on the AI. I like that one.

2. Mining Golem a.k.a "Countdown to extinction" - I don't know what to do about the miner. I just got message - a Mining golem will omgwtfpwn one of my planets. In 90 agonising minutes ...or something. This planet is highly important to me - there is Zenith Generator in there, if this is destroyed , it will be a total blackout, most of my energy depends on it. How works the whole "destruction" thing. All of my buildings gone BOOM , or I lose resources from this planet...or supply ... will my generator still works. And the biggest question - Can I destroy the golem I've got pretty sizeable fleet, lvl 3, 4, starships... can I stop it , any advice here

3. Botnet Golem and Regeneration Golem a.k.a. "Useless" - Now I put this in one bad category. I captured this 2, repaired the Botnet, thinking omg, omg, omg this thing will rock. It rocks...but. A big "but" in here. It costs too much for what it does. Let me explain - first you repair it. That's alot of resources and time and most important - alot of AI progress...around 100 I think. Then its operational. It costs you 600 000 energy to keep it running. That amount of energy costs ALOT - first you have to invest in generators, then these generators eat ALOT of resource you could be pouring in fleet and defences. Before the golem I used only one Zenith generator. 10 metal + 10 crystal for all my energy needs. After I was forced to build alot of generators. Ok, now you have fully repaired golem, you covered the costs, but the AI is all riled up and bearing down on you. So - this golem has to help you turn the tide. You send him in battle...and what you get for all that investment - he converts around 30-40-50 AI ships, his health drop below 10 % and you have to retreat him for repairs. And shock and panic - this repairs cost MORE AI progress and more resource.
Basically at the costs of AI progress and my resources I'm building uncontrollable ships - for all this trouble and investment and AI progress you get a bunch of uncontrollable ships. If you want to get more - more AI progress.  I'm building AI progress, for the future. Hurray. Not very good trade I say. I could have build that amount of ships in no time, not tying my resource income in generators. And at no AI progress costs at all. And I can control them. I simply can't see any use of this thing. Except may be 2 scenarios - final assault on AI world or when you are stuck attacking some planet and you are already at your ship cap - the last one is unlikely so only final assault is somehow viable.
All of the above can be said for the Regeneration Golem. May be this one is little stronger because you can control what ships you get back and you can control them. But that still don't see using it.
May be other players can use them in their strategies. If you have some use for them, speak and bestow your wisdom upon me. Discuss.

Anyway, enough banter from me. I'm having a blast in the expansion so far, trader is awesome, experimental starships are awesome, love marauders, rebels. Great game. Looking forward to your comments. Now I have to prepare welcome party for the visiting miners 

[quickstix]

Mining Golems can indeed be destroyed. It's difficult, but possible.

What happens if the Mining Golem reaches its target is the same as what happens when a planet is hit by a nuke. Most mobile military ships will be destroyed.  The planet will also no longer produce supply (for both itself and unclaimed adjacent enemy planets), meaning all buildings will no longer work, so your Zenith Power generator is in a bit of trouble there (unless I'm wrong, I haven't played for a little while). An exception to this is Advanced Factories, as they do not need supply to function (The idea with that is that you can still capture destroyed planets with a colony ship for Advanced Research Stations and Advanced Factories, but nothing else will function on the planet). So you'll need to pull your fleets to that planet to defend it against the golem.

Don't forget that Mining Golems hit AI Planets as well, which is why I mentioned the stuff about Advanced Factories and Advanced Research Stations. You can still capture them via colony ship, you just won't be able to do anything else as the planet doesn't produce supply.

In regards to capturable Golems, I've heard a common strategy is to only repair and use them during the endgame (ie, when attacking the AI homeworlds). This way, the AI progress isn't such a big deal and you get the added power during your attack. If you're planning to use golems, keeping the AI progress low by only capturing planets you absolutely need is the key. Personally, I don't really use golems, as I prefer to keep the AI progress as low as possible. Each to their own though.

[eRe4s3r]

Mining Golems are more or less easy to kill

http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,3046.0.html is a log of my engagement with one Mining Golem and winning it with 0 losses and costing me only 4 fortresses

[MaxAstro]

I have a hard time putting the word "only" in front of a phrase like "four Fortresses".  XD  Fortresses are a huge investment in knowledge and resources - the knowledge cost alone usually puts me off of getting them.  Plus they are stuck on the planet they are built on, so if the planet being attacked by the Mining Golem is important but not likely to otherwise be attacked, its effectively resources down the drain after you kill the Golem.  So I guess it's up to you to decide if the planet is worth the investment.

As far as the capturable golems go, I think they are a bit on the weak side right now.  If they were easy to get ahold of - say if you could build them straight up - the huge AI progress costs they incur would probably be okay.  But consider the opportunity cost of capturing a Golem.  You have to: A) Find one (and more accurately, find on that fits your current strategy), B) Capture the planet it is on, and C) Defend that planet from extra-large AI waves for long enough to get the Golem running.  Just getting a working Golem in the first place is a hefty challenge and devotion of resources.  And it all doesn't really feel worth it for a unit that's going to cost you 100 AIP every time it's in a serious fight, on top of the 100AIP for activating it in the first place.

This is all just my personal opinion, of course, but I really feel that either Golems should be stronger or, more preferably, the immense AIP cost of using a Golem was toned down a bit.  I guess the simplest way to say it is I think the extra AIP from capturing a Golem increases the difficulty more than the Golem itself reduces the difficulty, making it overall generally a bad strategic choice to capture a Golem.

[Lancefighter]

your forgetting the hive golem, and the cursed golem and the artillery golem.. and well, i dunno what to do with the armored golem

the hive is relatively safe - it only needs to be on the planet long enough to drop its load of bees; after that, it can retreat and be safe.. ish.

Other than that, cant really comment on the others.

[HellishFiend]

As assets, I also think Golems are on the weak side of things right now. I'd rather have a nice zenith reserve. They cost about the same amount of energy, but overall cost less AI progress and their presence doesn't spark larger incoming waves or reinforcements.

Golems should probably cost less AI progress to repair/operate, or cost no energy. I'm thinking costing no energy would be a decent option, because it would set it further apart from the Zenith reserves as a potential asset.

[RCIX]

your forgetting the hive golem, and the cursed golem and the artillery golem.. and well, i dunno what to do with the armored golem

the hive is relatively safe - it only needs to be on the planet long enough to drop its load of bees; after that, it can retreat and be safe.. ish.

Other than that, cant really comment on the others.

The armored golem is like a one-ship-fleet designed to be hot-dropped into a battle situation on it's own or with minimal escort. It was, in fact, my idea It could also be used as a fantastically powerful meatshield too!

[Kalzarius]

As assets, I also think Golems are on the weak side of things right now. I'd rather have a nice zenith reserve. They cost about the same amount of energy, but overall cost less AI progress and their presence doesn't spark larger incoming waves or reinforcements.

Golems should probably cost less AI progress to repair/operate, or cost no energy. I'm thinking costing no energy would be a decent option, because it would set it further apart from the Zenith reserves as a potential asset.

I have to agree with that.  In the single-player campaign I'm working on now, I think there are like 4 golems and only 30 planets.  Beyond having inefficient reactors, I see no way to have any of the golems online.  I have had to build 3 Mark II and III reactors in each planet to get the two golems I have found online.  At any rate, I think they need to have their energy requires reduced at least a bit.

[Kjara]

Yeah, its a 1 ship fleet, that costs at least as much energy as a comparable normal fleet, and costs around 200 aip, on top of causing planets its invading to have 3x normal reinforcements while its invading.  Why not use a normal fleet instead?

[TheWordWillSetYouFree]

Having the incredible energy cost and a huge AI progress increase makes them an avoid rather than a capture.

[Ozymandiaz]

Yeah, its a 1 ship fleet, that costs at least as much energy as a comparable normal fleet, and costs around 200 aip, on top of causing planets its invading to have 3x normal reinforcements while its invading.  Why not use a normal fleet instead?

One reason is to have effectively 2 fleets, or a super fleet if you put the golem with your own.

Could be nice for bashing some of the final worlds.

[eRe4s3r]

I have a hard time putting the word "only" in front of a phrase like "four Fortresses".  XD  Fortresses are a huge investment in knowledge and resources - the knowledge cost alone usually puts me off of getting them. 

It shouldn't. Fortresses are scrappable and build within 21 seconds (with full engineers) relocation is faster than a fleet. Resources.. well thats true. I guess its the tactic for the resource rich ^^

But you should really think about unlocking fortresses.. they are a key assault force on enemy planets, they repair and they outrange all defenses.. also they outrange all ships. I always go for fortresses...

Nowadays a fortress is a vital defense power (unless bomber come ,p)

[Kjara]

Yeah, its a 1 ship fleet, that costs at least as much energy as a comparable normal fleet, and costs around 200 aip, on top of causing planets its invading to have 3x normal reinforcements while its invading.  Why not use a normal fleet instead?

One reason is to have effectively 2 fleets, or a super fleet if you put the golem with your own.

Could be nice for bashing some of the final worlds.

Eh, until the end game I don't have enough energy for two fleets, and as has been stated before, I can get an extra fleet out of a core or mk IV reserve at a cheaper cost.  I guess it might fit in other playstyles better.

[MaxAstro]

It shouldn't. Fortresses are scrappable and build within 21 seconds (with full engineers) relocation is faster than a fleet. Resources.. well thats true. I guess its the tactic for the resource rich ^^

But you should really think about unlocking fortresses.. they are a key assault force on enemy planets, they repair and they outrange all defenses.. also they outrange all ships. I always go for fortresses...

Nowadays a fortress is a vital defense power (unless bomber come ,p)

Well, you learn something new every day...  I honestly never thought of using Fortresses as part of a beachhead.  That is a pretty good idea, actually.  Only for really important planets - Tech IV and such - because it's still expensive, but that definitely makes me re-evaluate the use of Fortresses.

[orzelek]

As far as golems go - only looking at AI progress cost for this thing gave me very simple solution for that - skip them and let them stay disabled.

What you are getting is a formidable(??) ship that eats a ton of energy.. and is a AI progress generating machine.

Since I have certain not ending game symptom I may yet have to find a use for golem.
But really - if you need some stopping power for progress you take missiles and normal fleet not something like golem which as mentioned erlier can require quite an operation to get and then will be a AI progress builder through it's existence.