Disclaimer: last 1 1/2 games I played diff.6, 60 Planets, everything complex
Not my usual but my one and only strategy is:
a) get 8-10 planets
b) secure my holdings (I'm stubborn about that)
c) get an adv. factory
d) win
Once I achieved a) I see no reason to expand further except in the direction of an adv. fac. Once I achieved c) I have zero reason to expand.
Well, bear in mind that the game is primarily balanced for 80 planets and up -- it is much easier to get to everything on the map (and thus take fewer planets) with fewer planets. 60 should really be pretty similar to 80, but when you get down in the 40 range or below it is a pretty markedly different experience. Same with if you have 120 planets or something, everything is more spread out and it is much more difficulty to get what you need.
That said, the idea is that you are not
supposed to take more planets than a certain percentage of the galaxy. You've hit upon one of the core strategies of this game, which is to figure out how to limit your expansion and go for the victory before the AI Progress gets too high. 8-10 planets is a little on the low side, I'd expect you to have to capture more like 1/4 of the planets in the map in order to win if the difficulty level was at the edge of what you can handle, but that's the general idea by design.
As soon as I have a three-digit resource income, my basic ships build && I 'only' have to replace my losses, resources become meaningless. In the one game I finished the number of available space docks was the limiting factor. Besides I go crazy on metal manufactories (and I wonder when they get hit by the nerf stick), so between those replacement cycles I have enough time to stockpile another bunch of resources.
Metal manufactories aren't overly likely to get nerfed, at least not from what I can think of at this stage, but we'll see. As for the rest, it honestly just sounds like you are playing on too low a difficulty for your skill. On a higher difficulty, you will need to expend more resources just to defend yourself, and you'll therefore have fewer resources and ships available for offense. Thus you'll need more territory in order to increase your income, but then you have to defend whatever you take, which begins the cycle anew. So when you play on a difficulty that is appropriate for your skill, the art of expansion into the galaxy becomes incredibly strategic with a lot of difficult decisions. When you play below your difficulty level, everything is too easy for you and so of course you have resource surpluses, no pressure to get more ships or knowledge, etc.
Adv. research: it might be everything from parasites (Yeah!) to armor (Bleh). Not to talk about the fact that they require another 7000 knowledge to make the unlocked ships meaningful for offensive purpose. So if they are in my way, great, more low level defenders are always welcome, but if they are more then 2 hops away and/or compromise my defensive position too much: no way
This, also, is most likely a factor of the AI difficulty being set to below your skill level. In a harder game, you'll need the extra ship cap to help defend yourself. Maybe not all 5 of the advanced research stations in every game, but probably at least three of them.
Thinking that taking a system will up the AI progress by another 20 is usually wrong. Except you want to make that system your designated wormhole bait, it's 20 + 10 x (number of hostile wormholes). Ignoring specops posts, which I kill with a vengance. I'm very reluctant about that. One solution though is sorched earth.
Yep, this is quite right. This becomes one of the great challenges of playing on a harder difficulty, is that the scorched earch pattern is effective in preventing too many hostile wormholes and too high an AI Progress, but it doesn't get you anything much in the way of resources. If you are playing at a level where things are tight and you're not overflowing with resources, this becomes a very tough decision.
To summarize: the cons for expansion outweigh the pros. Granted I haven't played MP so far where it might be a different story. Link up with your allies and such.
Yes. Even in multiplayer, this is often the case. Past a certain point (I would say 30 planets out of 80 max), expansion becomes much more negative than positive. Again, this is by design -- if you could take every planet without consequence, then there would be no strategy in it. When you are playing on a difficulty level where you are constantly finding everything is hard around you, and you are short on ships from your attacks as well as all your defenses, then expansion for more resources and knowledge and ships becomes really desirable, but also still a two-edged sword. So that's one of the chief grand-strategy dynamics of the game, but if you play on too low a difficulty for your personal skill level, then that whole aspect will be missing because there is no pressure on you.
Actually I like that fact that AI:wars doesn't require a domination victory (to speak in Civ4 terms) but the above has quite some implications:
-First and foremost knowledge. I research ship upgrades, engineers && tachyon emitters as soon as I see 'clocked' (Might be mines, might be minipods). Side note: the 'clocked' number is a tad too much intel for my liking. Basically thats it.
The cloaked number is basically there just to make it so that you can evaluate the planet and know if there are hostile forces there or not.
I usually lab-raid when gate-raiding, but deep penetrations in hostile territory for knowledge are not my cup of tea. Too much grinding for my taste. So 80% of the techs are meaningless for me. For that reason I'm not too excited about DLC: the number of techs increases, the amount of knowledge does not.
Yes, deep raiding for knowledge is not something many people do. I don't think that's really needed, at least not when you are taking more like 1/4 of the planets. When you are playing on smaller maps, or on too-low difficulties, then you will need fewer ships and thus fewer unlocked techs. That's just part of the nature of having a smaller map, since there is both less to defend and less to attack. Everything is "closer" in terms of the number of galaxy map hops, etc.
Also, as for 80% of the techs being meaningless... I would posit that a lot of that comes from being on too low a level. But also, there are some issues with balance in terms of people preferring the offensive techs to the defensive ones. The "Upper Level Bombers a Requirement?" thread has some interesting discussion and speculation this topic -- I think there are some interesting ideas there to try to get players to use more of the techs.
However, I should also point out that, by design, players should never be seeking (or even
able) to get all of the techs in any given game. In your average game, you should be getting maybe 10%-30% of all of the techs out there, depending on the size and length of your game. This is where the "build your own civ" aspects come in. Depending on the style of the AIs you are playing against (some of which can be quite different), and the type of ships you have on your side and are facing, and your general style of play (are your more of a turtle or more of a rusher), the techs that are valuable to you in any given campaign, or for any given player, are going to vary greatly.
-Onve I've gathered enough intel, more than 60% of all planets become uninteresting at one blow. They just clutter the galaxy display.
Actually, I would posit that 60% of the planets are "uninteresting" from the start, in many senses. The trick is to find the interesting ones out of all the uninteresting areas. And sometimes, an uninteresting planet becomes interesting just because it is between you and your real goals. Evaluating which planets are of strategic importance (interesting), and those which are not (uninteresting) is a key part of the larger strategy of the game.
Not to sound like a broken record, but if you are playing below your appropriate difficulty level, then you will get what you need too easily and more of the planets will seem uninteresting instead of interesting. When you are struggling to expand while defending yourself, and the nearest advanced research station is three hops away behind some "uninteresting" planets between you and it, the situation gets a lot more challenging and those uninteresting planets become a lot more interesting.
-A 'same procedure as every game' feeling. Mind you the tactical challenges are still exciting && different with every game but it feels like pulling of a SoP. E.g different on the tactical level, but uniform on the grand strategy scale.
I have not really heard that from anyone else so far -- in fact, generally just the opposite. It sounds like you are a very good player, playing below your difficulty level. I'd suggest trying out difficulty 7 or even 8 and see how the balance changes. Also, you might prefer 80 planet maps, given that it will make your expansion more challenging and interesting. If you are used to CivIV games (you mentioned it in passing), I think that will be more to your expectations to have one of the larger maps.
Possible solutions -just brainstorming-:
Always welcome!
-some means of range restriction, though I doubt it would chance much for me.
If you play larger maps and/or higher difficulties, this happens implicitly. It will change a lot for you, I'm guessing. The lower difficulties and smaller maps by nature are easier to get around, and everything seems closer than it is really designed to for expert play. Some players like that quicker instant-gratification aspect, and that's fine for them, but for you it sounds like you are looking for the experience given by larger maps and higher difficulties.
-make sorched earth less effective. Make the AI slowly resettle unoccupied systems
I have toyed with this off and on, and in fact I might do something along these lines as an option at some point, but right now scorched earth is the only thing saving some players from oblivion when they are playing at the higher difficulty levels. Scorched earth is only
overly effective in your games right now because you are not otherwise limited for resources, so that makes the decision to scorch a planet not a tough one.
-finite resources. I never played a game where finite resources were an option && worked. And if it's not an option it requires some heavy balancing. Sceptical about that
Yes, this is on my "maybe" list already as something to potentially do as an option for future DLC. It's going to take some balancing, though.
-Drastically decreasing the amount of resources you can store. Say from 300k to 60k. I'd be more inclined to go from 125/sec to 250/sec if I couldn't store so much resources
In higher difficulties, this effectively happens because you are needing to spend more. Having a resource excess is a sure sign that you are playing below your difficulty level. No matter what your skill level is, if you are a grand world champion Starcraft player or something, I think there is a level of AI here for you. The level 10s are absolutely brutal, I last around 8 minutes with them. The jump from 6 to 7, from 7 to 8, and from 8 to 9 are all somewhat logarithmic in their scaling upwards.
-a different knowledge mechanism. In its current incarnation the knowledge model doesn't give me options it takes away options. Admittedly this is not related to the expansion topic.
Well, again, we're talking about ways in which to make the defensive techs more attractive and relevant -- feel free to join in on that other thread and share your thoughts -- but I think that overall the knowledge model is pretty good besides that. In the game Fallout 3, or many RPGs for that matter (Neverwinter Nights comes to mind), you get limited "knowledge points" or whatever, and the upgrades you research for your character are thus challenging based on your desires and playstyle. AoEIII did something similar with customization of cards in its home city shipments, and even in games like Civ where you have a really deep tech tree, you get something of that effect.
The idea is that you are supposed to have to choose between the available techs, and those are supposed to be challenging choices since you can't have everything. For some of the non-offensive techs, those will be only relevant for some play styles or against some AI opponents or in some general scenarios in the game. There might be a few that you never use, since they just don't match your style or needs, but other players might use those very heavily. Force fields are a great example of this, where most players don't use them but some players find them completely indispensable. I don't expect every player to love every particular strategy, but that's why the players are free to take what is there and play their own way, versus being forced into a particular style. Every tech in the game has been useful to at least some players, which has been my goal. There is no true chaff, where it's useless to everyone and thus completely overlooked (well, maybe stealth tachyon beam emitters, but I think that's the only one).
-'While colonizing xxx you've discovered alien technology'. Make some high end stuff only acessible through colonizing not by research. (Warp gates, I want warp gates with the annoying caveat that the AI can use your warp gates too). Stuff like that.
Oh yeah, this is a huge focus for me with the expansions. I think that will really add a lot of variance to the maps, and a whole lot of new options. I think that will really expand the game in many meaningful ways. In the meantime, though, I think there is a lot on offer here if you are playing on a difficulty level that actually challenges you.
Well, thanks for reading...kind regards..Pia Kraft
Thanks for posting!
