Gearing up for the next AIW expansion: "Vengeance of the Machine"

[keith.lamothe]

This is just preliminary announcement so no images or release dates or preorder dates or even tons of detail, but since we've had to change timeframes on the Exodus project I'm now gearing up to work on the next AI War expansion: Vengeance of the Machine.

You puny human players will of course get some new toys (actually, considerably more than a few), but the theme here is making the AI more interesting and more varied an opponent.  That includes "make the game harder" stuff (the new "Shark" AI Plot, as I'm currently calling it) but focuses on "make the game more interesting/varied" by adding more variation in what each AI planet's "subcommander" does (can pick different command stations, control guard post selection and placement, etc) and what guardians each AI gets in a specific game, stuff like that.

I'm going to be asking for some feedback soon, notably about what kind of new Bonus Ship Types, Guardian Types, AI Core Guard Post Types, etc you'd like to see.

Anyway, I figured y'all would like to know

[Hearteater]

Anyway, I figured y'all would like to know

You figured correctly

[Cinth]

 

[Radiant Phoenix]

:want:

[x4000]

This is the time to start pouring your ideas into mantis, by the way -- we always take a lot of feedback from the community on expansions, but there's a lot of "fill in the blank" areas in the design of this expansion.  Not in a bad way -- we're perfectly capable of filling in those blanks ourselves.  But... well, you players just keep coming up with the coolest ideas!  Hundreds of heads are definitely better than two.  So we've intentionally left some slots for things like "we know we want X number of AI guardians, but exactly which designs we go with are still up in the air."

Now's your chance to submit new ideas on mantis and/or upvote existing ideas on there that you like.

[Wingflier]

Hey Chris, excited to hear about the new expansion, can't wait!

I put this in Mantis about a year ago, but I'm not sure if you've had a chance to look at it.

The idea is called "Super Guardians", and it's sort of like what Guardians were originally intended to do.

As of now, even on the higher difficulties (I usually play on 9 with exos and adv. hybrids turned on), very little is preventing the player from just "blobbing" his entire fleet around each planet mindlessly in order to "win" battles. The AI Eyes are a band-aid to this problem, but in the opinion of many players (after having endless discussions on this), doesn't really change the blobbing mechanic. You simply send in Raid Starships to take out the Guard Posts, or use a small fleet of Starships in the same way basically every time.  In other words, it just creates a new way of "cheesing" the game, it requires very little critical thinking on the players part and becomes just as formulaic as the "blobbing" it was intended to prevent. While this doesn't take away from the overall "grand strategy" side of things, it certainly leaves something to be desired for people who enjoy a more battle-friendly tactical experience.

Here is my idea of Super Guardians:  http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9450

In other words, you don't want to awaken these fellows too quickly. Dealing with each of them requires a specific set of ship types and strategies, and if you alert several different types at once well...God help you.

Keep it in mind, please

[keith.lamothe]

Dire Guardians are planned, yes, as are the actually brand-new big-mechanics of the expansion.  Though the details are somewhat up for grabs, so I will pay attention to that

[Vyndicu]

This is the time to start pouring your ideas into mantis, by the way -- we always take a lot of feedback from the community on expansions, but there's a lot of "fill in the blank" areas in the design of this expansion.  Not in a bad way -- we're perfectly capable of filling in those blanks ourselves.  But... well, you players just keep coming up with the coolest ideas!  Hundreds of heads are definitely better than two.  So we've intentionally left some slots for things like "we know we want X number of AI guardians, but exactly which designs we go with are still up in the air."

Now's your chance to submit new ideas on mantis and/or upvote existing ideas on there that you like.

Excellent I think I got a very evil "red" AI type idea. 

[x4000]

That's... a really elegant idea, actually!  The blobbing problem is something that didn't always exist in AI War (prior to somewhere in the 2.0 range, the logic of ship-freeing at AI planets made blobbing a bit of a bad idea), but as the game evolved (for the better in all other respects), blobbing has definitely become the big issue.  AI Eyes were indeed my idea of a band-aid, and I think that they are cool, but they are definitely not an end-all solution.  What you're proposing there sounds like it might be, though, and sounds like Keith agrees.

Just to be clear, I'm not going to be terribly involved with this expansion, just FYI.  I'm going to be in a bit of an advisory role at best, and mostly focused on Skyward.  Keith is the main man on this one, same as with Ancient Shadows.

[ZaneWolfe]

Bring on the Nienzul Kittens! The galaxy shall tremble before their power!!!  >D >D >D >D >D >D


stops the maniacal laughter~ Sorry about that. Sanity is only a sometime thing. Anyway... can we get some more bonus starships? Or more spire toys? Please? And of course the sweet new hacking mechanics that have been disused multiple times? Cause I am really missing my MKIV production ability. Four exo sources leaves anything not behind the choke point VERY dead.

[Vyndicu]

For whoever is wondering what sort of evil idea I had.

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11080

[TechSY730]

All right, time to start spamming posts about long time AI bugs and/or "stupidities" that I have posted on mantis that have been bugging for a long time.

[TechSY730]

On a more serious note, I hope this expansion focuses more on new mechanics than new units. The new units already introduced in Light of the Spire and Ancient Shadows (woo, spelled "ancient" correctly first time this time ) are still in need of balance polish. Introducing too many new units would just "backpedal" the balance work even more.

Not saying I don't want new units; those are cool and all. But I feel that this shouldn't be the focus of this expansion, so balance isn't disrupted even more than the relatively recently added stuff already has. Then, time spent on keeping things balanced and "polished" can be more productive.

Just my $0.02

[Faulty Logic]

What I'd really like to see here are "subcommander homesystems," basically a mini-AI.

They would:
send tiny waves of ~1/8 normal wave strength (often in sync with the parent AI waves)
send threatfleet groups of guardians (or super guardians) periodically
have mkV guard posts and ships like a core world, but without the crazy reinforcement priority
have the max allowable resource points and 2 (or 3) times normal k
if their parent homeworld is under attack, send all their ships to help
(possibly) have a mini, non-nuclear Avenger.

I was thinking one or two per AI, to satisfy the "quietly subdue the subcommanders" line, and to give midgame goals. You wouldn't have to take them out, but it would help.

If these sound like too good a deal for the player, have them add more than 20 AIP to take out.
Too good for the AI, add a couple data centers.

[Mánagarmr]

AHEM! This has been my bugbear ever since the Hybrids got implemented