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Author Topic: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.  (Read 5272 times)

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2010, 12:51:41 pm »
Quote from: Spikey00 on December 10, 2010, 12:46:01 pm
I still really dislike how the AI turns these waves into instant reinforcements because it quickly turns the game into a slow-paced attritionfest.

Hence my suggestion to separate free units that can defend in indefinitely, and free units that will only wait so much time before attacking. Maybe combined with the scaling of the "overwhelming force" calculation, could give a good balance of free units not scuicide with pointless attacks, but still remain somewhat aggressive.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 12:53:15 pm by techsy730 »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 12:53:19 pm »
Quote from: Spikey00 on December 10, 2010, 12:46:01 pm
I still really dislike how the AI turns these waves into instant reinforcements because it quickly turns the game into a slow-paced attritionfest.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, (theoretically) you can trick the AI into attacking you buy simply moving your forces off-planet.  Chris has now confirmed that the strange way the AI acts this patch in regards to "OF" is definitely a bug.  We should probably wait until he fixes it to make any more "sweeping" generalizations about it.
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Offline Gallant Dragon

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 03:08:00 pm »
You guys do know that these beta patches have yet to be balanced, right?
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 03:14:42 pm »
And this is feedback on the beta versions; however, my fear, was, and is, that it be the intention to incidentally increase the game grind through improvement of the AI tactics.
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Offline Suzera

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 03:22:09 pm »
If you send a small bit of ships in a few at a time, they'll come through the WH to attack in smallish (but bigger) bits too usually. Wearing them down quickly if they get into the thousands or two is fairly trivial at the moment since they do this. I'll try this with the save in the OP if I get a chance tonight. If someone else has already (including you).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 03:24:20 pm by Suzera »
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2010, 04:02:48 pm »
Quote from: techsy730 on December 10, 2010, 08:18:52 am
Agreed, the "overwhelming force" computation needs some tweaking.
Maybe there should be two tiers of "freed units", one from freed defensive units (blowing up a guard post or planet or what have you) that acts like the current freed unit system (overwhelming force and everything). And then an "attacking freed units", where the units in it have a much softer calculation for "overwhelming force", and a maximum time to wait...

Added this to mantis.
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=1975
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Offline x4000

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2010, 06:08:10 pm »
FYI, there's simply a bug here.  It has nothing to do with the "overwhelming force" logic at all, even.  In Spikey's game, for instance, there are simply idle threat units sitting ALL OVER the map doing nothing.  Literally, there's a few hundred ships on each of his planets, and just a few thousand on the key ones.

Whether or not the "overwhelming force" logic needs any tweaking is impossible to tell very well at the moment because it's hugely obscured by this (though I've been working on that logic all day, anyhow, as it did need to handle some specific cases a lot better).
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2010, 06:15:27 pm »
Well, I do appreciate your effort along with Keith's, and I do hope you're right.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2010, 06:27:12 pm »
It's good to know it's just a bug, and I'm excited to be able to play CPA again!
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2010, 07:52:04 am »
Quote from: Spikey00 on December 10, 2010, 06:15:27 pm
Well, I do appreciate your effort along with Keith's, and I do hope you're right.

It baffles me how anyone might be so presumptuous as to question Chris's ability to diagnose a bug in his own game...
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Offline ShadowOTE

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2010, 12:33:41 pm »
Quote from: zebramatt on December 11, 2010, 07:52:04 am
Quote from: Spikey00 on December 10, 2010, 06:15:27 pm
Well, I do appreciate your effort along with Keith's, and I do hope you're right.

It baffles me how anyone might be so presumptuous as to question Chris's ability to diagnose a bug in his own game...

heh, sometimes these bugs are really, really tricky to track down. but yeah, so far it seems Chris is very quick at tracking them down :D
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Offline arthurp

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2010, 05:56:43 pm »
Has this bug been fixed?

I see two bugs in mantis that seem to be related:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=1917
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=1918

But neither seems to mentions the bug about ships just sitting. They are all talking about the new sufficient/overwhelming force logic. Which is obviously not a bug.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Game is increasingly becoming more grind-y.
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 10:34:09 am »
The bug with them just sitting where they started is fixed, to my knowledge.  The links to the posts about them waiting outside wormholes for overwhelming force before going through the wormhole is working as intended at the moment, to my knowledge.
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