Game balance and pace over time is now excellent

[Haagenti]

In my current game (Diff 8.3 vs SFC and Spymaster), the game balance and pace over the first eight hours is now excellent.
- The faster start helps keeping the first half hour much more interesting.
- The pace at which the announced raids increase works fine to keep them somewhere between annoying and dangerous
- The pace at which the "wandering in" raids occur and their size  is also keeping me on my toes
- I never noticed before that the AI gets extra ship classes somewhere around AI level 200 (usually I keep the level well below this): it suddenly started Etherjetting my shiny new IV cruisers away
- Right when I could finally steamroll III planets, it started to launch mega-raids at me

So, this game is challenging me all the time. The mechanisms to get stronger as I get stronger are working out very well. It's almost like there is some sort of Dungeon Master at the other end: every time I think I'm on easy street, it throws me a curveball.

So, X, you made a great game and I will pay you a very big compliment "Today Hearts of Iron III comes out. I might buy it in a few weeks or so. Or later. When I have time for it."

[x4000]

Wow, Haagenti, that's very high praise!   I'm really glad it is all coming together so well for how you like to play, you've had some really great suggestions and have really helped to grow the game in the last few weeks.  It's really rewarding for me to see all this effort paying off in real terms for players, that makes it all worthwhile.

By the way -- that's impressive that you've been managing to keep the AI Progress so low, especially low enough that you never noticed the extra ship types that the AI unlocks every so often.  There are five or six other unlock thresholds all the way up to 1,800 or so AI Progress level, so if people go really crazy on the other end of the AI Progress spectrum (nuking everything, or just trying to scout the galaxy) they'll really be in for a rough ride.

Thanks very much for the compliments, I'm really glad it's working out so well for you, and of course keep the suggestions coming!

[Haagenti]

By the way -- that's impressive that you've been managing to keep the AI Progress so low, especially low enough that you never noticed the extra ship types that the AI unlocks every so often. 

Ultra-low AI (Small but beautiful) works excellent, though its very slow and time-consuming. If you limit yourself to 5 planets (for about 100 AI), find two ARSs and an Advanced Factory (for another 60), you need to find only 8 Data Centers to go back to 0. At 0, life is nice and easy. Raids are small, reinforcements are few and far in between. Gateraiding is not necessary, since the raids are so puny and it only gives more AI. You build a giant fleet of all your ship types and you start hunting for the Core.

At Diff 7 this strategy is almost unbeatable, as long as you can scout far and wide and cheap to find the stuff you need. If you cannot scout with scouts, you need to scout with your fleet. As you don't have many resources (with 5 planets), you will spend a long time to rebuild casualties. That is why I moved to 8.3 against AIs that stop this strategy: the SpyMaster stops scout ships, and an 8.3 SF Commander is very good in generating casualties on scouting fleets. This forces me to have a more mass-battle-oriented strategy.

There are five or six other unlock thresholds all the way up to 1,800 or so AI Progress level, so if people go really crazy on the other end of the AI Progress spectrum (nuking everything, or just trying to scout the galaxy) they'll really be in for a rough ride.

Or, if they have parasites, have a lot of tactical flexibility

Thanks very much for the compliments, I'm really glad it's working out so well for you, and of course keep the suggestions coming!

Thanks very much for the game and the patches.

Suggestions: BTW: I think that the timefactor for the AI level is way too low. Upping it to 1 per 5 minutes would make time much more meaningful in the game and would help a lot in stopping the "small-beautiful" approach. In return you could lower the penalties for killing orbitals (NOT for warp gates) or up the bonus for Data Centers to rebalance this.

And while you are at it: the SF Commander is already very strong. I'd advocate lowering the AI bonus to +1 per SF Command Post with a maximum of 1 per planet or removing it for this AI.

[x4000]

Ultra-low AI (Small but beautiful) works excellent, though its very slow and time-consuming. If you limit yourself to 5 planets (for about 100 AI), find two ARSs and an Advanced Factory (for another 60), you need to find only 8 Data Centers to go back to 0. At 0, life is nice and easy. Raids are small, reinforcements are few and far in between. Gateraiding is not necessary, since the raids are so puny and it only gives more AI. You build a giant fleet of all your ship types and you start hunting for the Core.

Very cool.  I doubt most people have the patience for this style, but I'm glad to see that there is such a variance in valid playstyles.

As you don't have many resources (with 5 planets), you will spend a long time to rebuild casualties. That is why I moved to 8.3 against AIs that stop this strategy: the SpyMaster stops scout ships, and an 8.3 SF Commander is very good in generating casualties on scouting fleets. This forces me to have a more mass-battle-oriented strategy.

Yeah, that would be really rough.

There are five or six other unlock thresholds all the way up to 1,800 or so AI Progress level, so if people go really crazy on the other end of the AI Progress spectrum (nuking everything, or just trying to scout the galaxy) they'll really be in for a rough ride.

Or, if they have parasites, have a lot of tactical flexibility

Indeed!

Thanks very much for the compliments, I'm really glad it's working out so well for you, and of course keep the suggestions coming!

Thanks very much for the game and the patches.

Of course!

Suggestions: BTW: I think that the timefactor for the AI level is way too low. Upping it to 1 per 5 minutes would make time much more meaningful in the game and would help a lot in stopping the "small-beautiful" approach. In return you could lower the penalties for killing orbitals (NOT for warp gates) or up the bonus for Data Centers to rebalance this.

Good point, I've now increased the default as you suggested.  That will only affect new players, since it remembers your prior settings instead of the default, but I think that's a good change given all the other shifts in the game.

And while you are at it: the SF Commander is already very strong. I'd advocate lowering the AI bonus to +1 per SF Command Post with a maximum of 1 per planet or removing it for this AI.

Well, the ships are what they are, I can't really vary them by AI type unless I make new specialized versions of the ships for a given AI type.  I feel like the special forces captain is really weak on defense overall, and so the AI progress is mostly appropriate.  I haven't had too much trouble with them compared to other AI types, at any rate, but maybe they are tougher against certain styles of play than others.

[Haagenti]

I feel like the special forces captain is really weak on defense overall, and so the AI progress is mostly appropriate.  I haven't had too much trouble with them compared to other AI types, at any rate, but maybe they are tougher against certain styles of play than others.

Weak on defense? At 8.3 with AI level 240, the command posts are vomiting hordes and hordes of ships. Except for the obvious turtle boys, who would you consider strong on defense?

[x4000]

Hmm.  With some of the recent balance shifts for reinforcements, these may have strengthened considerably.  That had not occurred to me until you described it.  So I've added this to my list:  http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,643.0.html

[Admiral]

So, X, you made a great game and I will pay you a very big compliment "Today Hearts of Iron III comes out. I might buy it in a few weeks or so. Or later. When I have time for it."

You are evil! As if I don't already have enough things on my Amazon wishlist and my Impulse wishlist...

[eRe4s3r]

I guess i must be the only one who won't touch HOI 3 :p

I'd rather play 50 games of Ai War than a single round of HOI ever again. Strategy games that lock me into always the same conflict, and i mean always the SAME CONFLICT are just boring. I absolutely hate historical accuracy when it impairs my ability to PLAY the way i want. For example in 1936 there is not enough chance to change history - for a proper simulation where i have full range of choices the game would have to start in 1890 and include a chance to entirely avoid WW1 , and thus change starting situation in any sensible way for 1936 onwards

[Admiral]

eRe4s3r has some interesting points. How do you say that, anyway? Ereaser? E-reaser? Eraser? Hm.

I am no student of history, but I am somewhat familiar with it. I couldn't care about it in gaming though. Perfectly accurate or completely wrong - I only care if it's a good game from a mechanics and depth perspective. So, that wouldn't rule out HOI 3 for me. Finance and time might, though.

I know there were (apparently) many 1.013 graphical enhancements. I don't think I noticed any except for the new bullets; it was nice to be able to tell what kind of ship was firing at any given moment, especially since I like my parasites to get shots in on every battle.

Cheers!

[eRe4s3r]

Its just eRe if you are lazy otherwise eeRaizer (pronounced that way ,p)

Guess i am just not a big fan of HOI - after 1 i could never again get into any HOI, and it must be said but HOI3 has some of the fracking worst tutorials ever. Like about as useful as a 11th toe on your forehead.

Also HOI3 feels more like working a job than playing a game... And i am seriously hard core simmer (Racing/Flying/Naval/Sub) but spreadsheet games are not my thing. A good game is endlessly complex without stopping to be fun. HOI 3, is never fun (to me!)

[Haagenti]

Well....in the end my AI8.3 game turned out to resemble WWII Russian Front (a la HOI3) in an eerie way:

(1941) I started out briskly with operation Barbarossa: conquering planets with superior forces. This went all right until I lost a significant part of my fleet against a IV planet (Moscow) with forcefielded SF Command Posts, losing me a lot of time and giving the AI the chance to rebuild. This partial defeat was mainly caused by a sudden loss of mobility of my main striking force (Teleport Stations) in the Russian mud. For some mystical reason, the previously dominant Teleport Platforms never regained their supremacy on the battlefield (read: X patched them). Additionally, the enemy suddenly started deploying T34 EtherJets in large numbers, a weapon which was quite effective against my massed armor, but even more in a role as partisans behind my lines.

(1942) Once my fleet was rebuilt, my offensive resumed. Moscow and another few planets were taken, until I ran up against another IV planet: Stalingrad. A terrible battle of destruction occurred. More and more of my resources went into a big meatgrinder. I had the AI down to one forcefielded SFC post, when suddenly Operation Uranus was launched by the AI in the form of its first raid: a big III raid in my hinterland. The fleet had to abandon Stalingrad but did manage to defeat the raid rather comprehensively, capturing scores of the precious III cruisers. In the mean time, partisan raids were increasing, tying down precious ships and draining resources needed desperately at the front.

(1943) The fleet returned to Stalingrad and took it, then launched itself to the other IV planet in the strategic perimeter (Kursk). Another epic siege occurred where the Haagenti forces ground forward delaing and taking terrible losses. This too was too slow, as another raid was launched. The fleet had to retreat, never to return to Kursk again. The raid was level IV and the battle led to significant casualties. Partisans were now regularly destroying several tractor turrets, other turrets and garrison cruisers. Resources and especially cruisers were in shorter and shorter supply.

(1944) Before all these could be rebuilt, another IV raid was launched. This turned out to be the destruction of Army Group Center. The raid was beaten off, but it was clear that the war was lost, as the fleet had lost a significant part of its irreplaceable elite troops (I once had about 250 IV cruisers, all parasited). Partisan raids, supported by hordes of the dreaded T34-EtherJet, rose to a level where they would now occasionally overwhelm a garrison and actually conquer a system. Reconquest took time, attention and even more valuable resources.

(1945) The end came mercifully swift. The fleet had rebuilt itself, albeit to a weaker level than before. A 2nd III raid hammered into its veteran cadres, but the raid was beaten off. albeit with heavy casualties. Shortly after the last hammerblow fell: "A raid is forming at level IV planet". All remaining forces were gathered for a desperate last stand, all available resources were poured into vast hordes of turrets under forcefields, supported by endless minefields. Every available man was mobilised, every remaining weapon was deployed, including the strategic reserve of carefully hoarded parasited IV fighters, autocannons and Etherjets. All in vain, they were less than a speedbump against a ravening horde of more than 1000 IV ships.

Twenty minutes later the triumphant enemy entered Berlin, and scant minutes later the HaagentiBunker was successfully stormed, sweeping aside the paltry garrison. Peace reigned again in the universe.

[Haagenti]

I guess i must be the only one who won't touch HOI 3 :p

I'd rather play 50 games of Ai War than a single round of HOI ever again. Strategy games that lock me into always the same conflict, and i mean always the SAME CONFLICT are just boring. I absolutely hate historical accuracy when it impairs my ability to PLAY the way i want. For example in 1936 there is not enough chance to change history - for a proper simulation where i have full range of choices the game would have to start in 1890 and include a chance to entirely avoid WW1 , and thus change starting situation in any sensible way for 1936 onwards

Have you tried Victoria and its expansions? They start in 1840 and roll on to 1940. It had a lot of micromanagement, but it was definitely fun to build up Japan into a naval power that could defeat the UK, Mexico into something that could withstand the US, or Germany into something that could actually survive.

And in HoI2 you could definitely have fun:
- playing Germany in the 1944 scenario was tremendous fun. It was possible to come back, though very hard.
- playing Russia and getting into a war with Ger, UK and US at the same time

The standard 1936 scenario as Germany got stale though....

[Admiral]

And i am seriously hard core simmer (Racing/Flying/Naval/Sub) but spreadsheet games are not my thing.

So, what games do you really like then? I'd love a list.

My favorite sim of all time was probably Falcon 4.0. I loved flying the thing on full realism mode. I would have bought the DCS Black Shark (?) helicopter sim (though I've flown helicopters only a handful of times) but I don't abide DRM and the thing has some really abusive DRM. I'd love to get an up-to-date Falcon.

I'm a pilot, and I remember the first time I flew into Meigs field (around 13 years ago, before that imbicile Daley tore the place down) after flying MS Flight Simulator since 1982... It was so eerie, I felt like I knew the place intimately despite having never been to Chicago before.

Cheers!

[eRe4s3r]

GTR / Race 07 / Ehm.. that rally game that was super realistic.. what was it called

Richard Burns Ralley = Best rally game ever, declassing any and all other rally games, especially that Collin McRae stuff eg. Dirt/Grid and CM05 etc.

Also like Subsims /Dangerous Waters\ Ship sims and more sub sims (Silent hunter 3 with mods) and SH4 with mods... Falcon 4. .. well that is a bit TOO hardcore but i can live with it.. otherwise Enemy Engaged..

I didn't get black shark either - i boycott abusive DRM like that (AND it shows how not to do DRM ever) Also the demo never worked for me (DRM problem on Vista x64) so yea

Apart that ... Economy Sims ;p (Anno 1404 atm) and of course - Homeworld 2 with Complex (semi realistic sci-fi ,p)

I also dig RPG's ... generally i play a lot of stuff, as long as its good, but i never got into HOI - i got in Europe Universalis though..

I never heard of Victoria - And that aside there IS europe universalis which is as far as i go with such sim games (in terms of time scale) everything after 1800 is not for me

[Haagenti]

Victoria (or Vicky as its followers call it) and its expansion Revolutions (Ricky) is made by Paradox Games (who also make Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron).

Like most Paradox games you can play any country, from the mighty UK (who is supremely powerful at start) to the lowly nation of Hawaii. It has the entire world map, though heavily distorted, to show Europe much larger. Vicky is much less a military simulation than a political/social/economic simulation.

Economic:
Nations have provinces, which produce about 15 different sorts of goods. These can be sold or used for production (like Anno 1404) of other goods. At start, very little production takes place, as the Industrial Revolution has not yet occurred and there are no factories, except in the UK. Slowly, the factories get built and production starts to grow. Nations have an economic policy such as Laissez-faire (where you cannot build factories, but the nation builds its own factories for free) to State-controlled, where you have control but you have to pay for everything.

Social:
A quite unique part in the game is that each province has a number of POP units (groups of people). Each Pop has a profession: laborer (works in fields/mines), worker (works in factories), priest (generates happiness), soldier, officer, capitalist (generates money) etc. POPs can change between professions, but this takes certain goods.

Political:
A nation has a form of government, which influences the happiness of different groups: Communism is good for workers, but priests, soldiers and capitalisms don't like it, while workers hate a monarchy etc. etc. You have to keep the people happy, otherwise they'll vote in a different government or revolt etc.

All in all, it is quite a difficult game to set-up an economy and keep it running. Wars are bloody and expensive: casualties are taken from your soldier POPs and once these run out, you have to conscript previously productive POPs.
It has been one of my favorite games for quite some time though. It's also very instructive about a period in history (Napoleon to WWII) of which I knew almost nothing about. I recommend it. It's less hardcore than HOI, but only slightly.