Fleet ships seem a bit underwhelming

[cdn]

So far I've won 4 games

7/7 - No expansion enabled.  Standard win obviously.  This was also the only game with auto-AIP progress on.
7/7 - Fallen Spire.  This and the 8/8 win below used Golems Medium, Spirecraft Medium, Zenith Trader in addition to FS.
8/8 - Standard win but with Fallen Spire done through the Galactic Capital step
9/9 - Fallen Spire again.  I'm going to call this "9/9 minus" though because I had Golems Easy, Alt-Champ Progress 6/10, Spirecraft Easy enabled.

I think the most salient observation I've made from these four games that went all the way to the end is that the first was the most difficult.  And not because it was the first, but rather because it was vanilla.  No golems, no Mk. V turrets, no champion, no Fallen Spire fleet, no modular forts except the human one, no armor boosters/inhibitors zip.  Jut warheads, which I did use to great effect in the late game.  By way of comparison, the last CPA wave I handled in the last game was just shy of 25,000 ships, I was regularly fighting AI fleets of 10,000 or more on their own planets, and there were carriers everywhere for the last 10 hours or so.  Without the fancy toys, the fleet from the first game just gets obliterated in that kind of environment.  I know the whole "sleeping giant" bit is a big selling point for this game, but I think there really should be a way to keep fleet ships relevant as something more than a mobile defense force in high-AIP games.

Personally, for my next game I'm going to no expansions, no auto-AIP, and no CSGs (I hate how the CSG network prioritizes ARS over fabs.. maybe I'm doing it wrong but I get far more use out of a fab than an ARS), and will planet-hop my way to victory.  Maybe.  Hopefully.   

[Toranth]

Well, there's a reason that Golems, Spirecraft, Champions, and Fallen Spire units are all known as "Super-Weapons".

The general expectation is that if you use super-weapons, you are making the game different.  If you use Golems - Easy, the game becomes much easier.  If you play Golems - Hard, the game can become much harder.  In both cases, it is a different sort of game than the base game, with more focus on those special units.
But it's all a matter of choice.

As it happens, I tend to agree with you - I find the no super-weapon games more interesting and more satisfying to play through.  But for sheer coolness and drama, nothing beats a full Spire Capital Fleet supported by Golems and Spirecraft giving a beatdown to Mothership in epic battle.

[Pumpkin]

AI War is great for that: you can play the game you want. For instance, no wave warning and cross planet waves are two AI modifiers that totally change defense.

[Mal]

I completely agree with Toranth and Pumpkin.

I think that if you play with Hunter on at 4 and Pre-Emption and hybrids, that you can easily balance out the super-weapons you get if you wanted a challenge with them.

But to answer more of your main point: Fleet Ships are all glass cannons.

They are affected by nearly everything in the game because of their economic affordability and their numbers ( which can easily deal with most ships in the game due to their multipliers).

The problem with fleet ships is putting them in the right place and most of all supporting them.

Unsupported fleet ships will do a little bit of damage and then die quickly. This is true even of the badass mercenary ships you can buy that start out at MkIV.

Each ship also needs to be put into the position to win rather than be flung like a hammer at your opponent's face ( which starships and warheads do very well).

The easiest study for this is the missile frigate. It is long range, slow, but deals great damage. I would recommend pairing them with your assault starships by putting them in an assault transport with a flagship, and unloading them in a flanking position of your opponent where your main force is attacking. I am sure you will be surprised when the massive wall of missiles helps your attacks much more than just another starship would.

Bombers need to be protected, pair them with a shielding riot ship group or your shadow champion who can build forcefields over them. They deal damage fast to structures but die quickly as well.

Fighters are amazing escorts for your Raid ships as they can deal with most guardians ( they have the medium hull type for the most part) which can kill dissassembler guardians that eat your ships.

So TL:DR - Fleet Ships are very powerful, but have a lot of limitations to their mission scope and need to be supported to win their fights.

[Cinth]

Fleet ships are pretty much fine on their own too.  You just need to make sure you throw the right ships at the problems at hand.

That wave of 300 AI 2 Bombers is best handled by your Fighters.  AI 1 Missile Frigates are best handled by your Bombers. 
You have to play them to their bonuses and they will usually win out.  There are quite a few guys here that have won some high AI level games with a fleet based on fleet ships.

Super weapons are just that, super weapons.  Playing with those will give you a very different game.

[Pumpkin]

Each ship also needs to be put into the position to win rather than be flung like a hammer at your opponent's face ( which starships and warheads do very well).

I have to disagree to this particular point: starships are not invincible. There is nasty things like OMD and arachnid guard posts that just one-shot most starships (and disassemblers*). Even golems are easily killed by theses or by implosion attacks. The "don't fling like a hammer" is valid for anything in AI War. After all, it's a game about strategy and tactic!

However, I agree with the warheads. They are the only blind hammer in AI War.

* With the hunter plot, AI put disassemblers and missile guardians in Special Forces: when cops come down, fleet ships and starships are both in bad situation.

[cdn]

Fleet ships are pretty much fine on their own too.  You just need to make sure you throw the right ships at the problems at hand.

That wave of 300 AI 2 Bombers is best handled by your Fighters.  AI 1 Missile Frigates are best handled by your Bombers. 
You have to play them to their bonuses and they will usually win out.  There are quite a few guys here that have won some high AI level games with a fleet based on fleet ships.

Super weapons are just that, super weapons.  Playing with those will give you a very different game.

That's a good point and it works very well in low-AIP situations.

My point is that 20 hours into a 9/9 game with 800 AIP the waves, special forces, CPAs, and AI reinforcements will be so high that they'll simply overrun any normal fleet because caps while a superweapon based fleet (and superweapon-esque defenses like Mk. V turrets and modular forts) can still function in that environment so long as you play to their strengths.

[Mal]

My point is that 20 hours into a 9/9 game with 800 AIP the waves, special forces, CPAs, and AI reinforcements will be so high that they'll simply overrun any normal fleet because caps while a superweapon based fleet (and superweapon-esque defenses like Mk. V turrets and modular forts) can still function in that environment so long as you play to their strengths.

Well, I feel like at 800 AIP in a 9/9 game, you will have to have a fully outfitted (MKIV) fleet that is attack boosted for them to be able to stand the constant MkIV and MkV ships at that point. That is the super-weapon fleet pretty much...and with that much AIP, you should definitely be able to afford the above and do well still. Again, you have to support them and put them in the right spot, but all you are doing is increasing the numbers game. If everything is still equal in strength and you have the tactical positioning or support, you win.

[Toranth]

My point is that 20 hours into a 9/9 game with 800 AIP the waves, special forces, CPAs, and AI reinforcements will be so high that they'll simply overrun any normal fleet

At 9/9 and 800 AIP, you are either doomed or about to finish the game anyway.  It's designed that way.  The AI can always overpower the human player if it wants to, so you need to get strong enough to beat it without grabbing too much attention.  Superweapons allow you to get more power at a given AIP, or raise the AIP higher before hitting the wall, but they aren't, and shouldn't be, a free "Go to Town" license.

The Fallen Spire campaign is specifically designed to be exactly that - to give the Human player strong enough superweapons that you can beat down the high AIP response and win through sheer brute force.  Nothing else is supposed to be able to be superior to the AI's forces at those levels.  Even the Fallen Spire can be overwhelmed, actually, if the Diff and AIP are high enough.

[Cinth]

Fleet ships are pretty much fine on their own too.  You just need to make sure you throw the right ships at the problems at hand.

That wave of 300 AI 2 Bombers is best handled by your Fighters.  AI 1 Missile Frigates are best handled by your Bombers. 
You have to play them to their bonuses and they will usually win out.  There are quite a few guys here that have won some high AI level games with a fleet based on fleet ships.

Super weapons are just that, super weapons.  Playing with those will give you a very different game.

That's a good point and it works very well in low-AIP situations.

My point is that 20 hours into a 9/9 game with 800 AIP the waves, special forces, CPAs, and AI reinforcements will be so high that they'll simply overrun any normal fleet because caps while a superweapon based fleet (and superweapon-esque defenses like Mk. V turrets and modular forts) can still function in that environment so long as you play to their strengths.

 
9/9 @ 800 AIP is so far off the beaten path for a normal game.  At 800 AIP you should have already killed one AI homeworld and be working on the second.  800 AIP is also pushing it for some superweapon games.  4 - 500 AIP should be the target range (IMO) for a normal playthrough.  Mal is pretty close to being right and and Toranth is spot on. 800 AIP is just dangerous, period. 

Even the Fallen Spire can be overwhelmed, actually, if the Diff and AIP are high enough.

That used to be the case but I do believe that has been fixed (AI can't keep calling waves at a certain point).  I have an old save where I was playing 10/10 and had the Imperial Fleet and the AI basically in a stalemate.  Now the Spire just plow the AI in a battle of attrition (in that save).  The stalemate point was over 2k AIP though (if you were wondering).

[TechSY730]

One nice thing about fleet ships is that their cap cost tends to be less, so you aren't quite so punished for losing them (in terms of reprisal). This means you don't need to "babysit" them nearly to the same degree. This makes them much less risky to send into "dangerous" situations.

One way I have found useful to get around the lower cap HP of fleet ships is using transports. Just pack them in (in stand down mode if you have a specific target in mind), send them off, and unload on stuff you want destroyed (if in stand down mode, give the order to attack before bringing them back online, that way they don't waste their first shot against something besides what you wanted destroyed).