Fleet Ship vs Starship general balance discussion

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Zenith Fortresses were very powerful before :/

[superking]

the new fleetship buffs (10x attack, 0.1x bonuses) sounds excellent 

[Ozymandiaz]

the new fleetship buffs (10x attack, 0.1x bonuses) sounds excellent 

They do, seems they will be more rounded, and I guess more easily balanced as well.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Ehmm.  The fighter change means that fighters now counter missile frigates.

fighter has 750 dps, 81200 hp, 200 cost

frigate has 495 dps, 33600 hp, 800 cost

If the frigate gets the 10x treatment it would still be countered by the fighter since it has a 10x mod against light as is.
Old fighter had 75 dps vs frigates.

in fact the fighter counters pretty much everything right now, even forcefields.

[Lancefighter]

all thats happening at this point is making everything die faster :\

[keith.lamothe]

in fact the fighter counters pretty much everything right now, even forcefields.

Yes, this is clearly not Chris giving us a clue to not bug him about balance before balance week

[superking]

even about spire ships & new gaurdians? there is so much to report 

[Ozymandiaz]

Tbh, the player force fields sub MK III is not all that, they are fairly low HP now a days (relatively that is, and same for the Fortresses)

[Kron]

Hmmm, this is probably me, but I feel that bombers have a grossly inflated level of importance when compared to fighters or frigates.

I keep reading statements to the effect of "use bombers" or "counter this with bombers" or "add a bomber escort to make destroying these things faster".

 

[Lancefighter]

thats generally because bombers are the counter to structures.. back in 'the day', the tutorial taught you to engage special forces posts with only frigates, because those outrange it, allowing for the destruction without loss.

Nowadays, there are virtually no structures (other than random guard posts) that are NOT countered by bombers - thus, bombers are considerably more useful of the fleet ships.

However, starships infringe on this fairly well - the bomber and siege starships fill virtually the SAME role, and are often seen as doing it better due to attrition.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Bombers are also flat out more effective than the other two triangle ships. They kill frigates faster than fighters kill bombers, or frigates kill fighters. They're also heavily armored, so high-mark Bombers are very resistant to enemy fire. (This is why Core Bombers are ultra bad news; Mk I Fighters can't even scratch them!)

[Kron]

Hrngh. Don't you think we should consider rebalancing the core triangle too, then?

The way this sounds to me, everyone starts off with 4 fleetships and only really has to bother about building bombers and the unique.

That's not a "triangle", that's "bombers! ... and friends". XD

[orzelek]

Currently first ship unlocked to higher marks... is bombers ( unless you are doing bad things with new spire toys).

Mk V bombers are very bad news always - but in general all bombers are toughest ships around.

It may be an effect of complains that were quite long time ago about bombers being the most countered and died faster...

After last fighter changes - core triangle requires re-balance for sure

[superking]

in an ideal world,

fighters are the best triangle ship to use in wave defence because they counter bombers

bombers are the best triangle ship to use in attacks on enemy planets because they destroy structures

frigates are useful to support attacks by parking in the middle of an enemy system and using their long range to swat down any fighters that attempt to intercept your bombers



in practice, I dont use frigates unless I have to, but fighters & bombers are legit

[Kron]

In an ideal world, all ship types would be useful on both defence and offence.