First serious game since crystal resource removal

[zoutzakje]

So I have a few observations which will most likely be considered newb
I really didn't like that crystal had been removed so I couldn't bother playing for a while (and hadn't played a while before that either). But now that I started a game it actually doesn't seem so bad as I had originally feared. Few hours in and the game feels pretty balanced so far.
Playing a 7/7 vanilla - vicious exotic/the tank - raid engine on a honeycomb map and there's a few things I've noticed that feel different so far. Don't know how long ago the changes were made but they sure have an impact on me.

First, the special forces seem really really shy. I remember in the past a few hours in there could be hundreds of ships (if not thousands) come out occasionally to bite you in the ass on a planet you're attacking. Now I see a couple of riots and a few dozen fleetships every once in a while but that's it. Do they save themselves mostly for what they consider important targets (haven't attacked any yet) or are there simply less of them now?

I'm new to reprisal waves. Love them.

And holy crap, what's with the huge retaliation of the third fallen spire shard retrieval? The one from which you can make your first colony ship. I mean seriously, those exo's have been buffed immensely since I last played it. In my current game I went for fallen spire stuff pretty quickly and had no difficulties with the first 2 recoveries at all. But this one rampaged right over me. I've had quite an AIP boost (70-80 points, putting it at 135) since my last shard recovery so I don't know if that's related but damn. I've got to wait a while before doing this one.

and last, the worst one of all... NOOOOO my martyrs... they finally got hit with the nerf bat. Expected and deserved but still makes me sad.

Looking forward to see what else the AI will throw at my face

[Draco18s]

Yeah, the crystal removal is one of those things that felt like a bad idea, but really made a lot of sense in the end.

[Toranth]

So I have a few observations which will most likely be considered newb
I really didn't like that crystal had been removed so I couldn't bother playing for a while (and hadn't played a while before that either). But now that I started a game it actually doesn't seem so bad as I had originally feared. Few hours in and the game feels pretty balanced so far.

Playing a 7/7 vanilla - vicious exotic/the tank - raid engine on a honeycomb map and there's a few things I've noticed that feel different so far. Don't know how long ago the changes were made but they sure have an impact on me.

Welcome back.  That's quite a reintroduction - the Vicious Exotic is pretty brutal, and Raid Engine on a honeycomb?  That's a hard start, all right.

First, the special forces seem really really shy. I remember in the past a few hours in there could be hundreds of ships (if not thousands) come out occasionally to bite you in the ass on a planet you're attacking. Now I see a couple of riots and a few dozen fleetships every once in a while but that's it. Do they save themselves mostly for what they consider important targets (haven't attacked any yet) or are there simply less of them now?

They're still there, and aside from a few tweaks (no fleets of 1000 Maws, Blade Spawners, or the like) just as nasty as ever.  They may not be big enough yet, or they may not care about your targets yet.  But if you aren't careful, they can still hurt you badly (especially with Retaliation now in play).

And holy crap, what's with the huge retaliation of the third fallen spire shard retrieval? The one from which you can make your first colony ship. I mean seriously, those exo's have been buffed immensely since I last played it. In my current game I went for fallen spire stuff pretty quickly and had no difficulties with the first 2 recoveries at all. But this one rampaged right over me. I've had quite an AIP boost (70-80 points, putting it at 135) since my last shard recovery so I don't know if that's related but damn. I've got to wait a while before doing this one.

It sounds like it's the AIP.  Normally it's not so heavy a jump at that point.  The first city you build, though - that Exo is still a major jump.  However, Exos have been buffed any number of ways.  One of the new methods to deal with them is "crumple zones" so to speak.  Take advantage of the per-planet turret caps, and set up a few systems designed to be destroyed as the Exo runs through, while whittling it down in size.  THEN the weakened Exo can faceplant onto your whipping boy.  Log III and lots of Sniper/Spider turrets set way to the side of the system does a good job of trimming the Exo.

and last, the worst one of all... NOOOOO my martyrs... they finally got hit with the nerf bat. Expected and deserved but still makes me sad.

Well, they needed it.  But in exchange, we got the new Warheads.  Armored are almost as good as the old Martyrs, if more expensive. 

[zoutzakje]

ah yes, I didn't even notice the better warheads since I would hardly ever use them in the past. The old martyrs made them kind of useless, but now they're worth trying out when the need arises.

and yeah, raid engine on the honeycomb is proving to be quite a challenge alright. With Spire civilian leaders on as well the AIP is really starting to work against me. I'm hoping to turn the tides in my favor once I can get the 800k energy to power that botnet I found close by. Zombies will rule the galaxy once more!

[Zebeast46]

What's all this about a crystal resource? I only started playing in 8.0, also when was it removed?

[zoutzakje]

every object, structure and ship in the game used to require an amount of both metal and crystal, until crystal was considered to be kind of pointless and everything was balanced for just metal. I haven't played enough to judge it properly but it seems to be working fine. I think it happened somewhere late 7.x

[Draco18s]

Basically some units required a lot of crystal or a lot of metal or a balance of both (or somewhere in between).  Spirecraft were heavy on the crystal, zenith on metal (IIRC).  But as there was a 3:2* conversion ratio between the two (metal converters and crystal converters) and as running out of one still meant you had trouble constructing units (because almost nothing required zero of one or the other) the two resources were largely interchangable.  Unit balance was also structured around the M+C costs (so "damage per cost" was agnostic about whether that cost was meta or crystal or both).  So the total costs of M+C were added together and made the new metal cost.

*Don't recall exact ratio

[Zebeast46]

Back in the "olden" days how did you get crystals? I heard you talk about converters but did each planet have either crystal or metal?

[Regdren]

It was basically the same way metal is harvested now, except some nodes were crystal instead of metal. Think of it as metal split into two resources gained in the same way. The converters were a building you could construct that turned metal to crystal or vice versa when you ran out of one of the two resources. As mentioned before, there was some loss in the conversion so it was better to just have enough of the one you needed. Pretty much the only difference I could remember with that gameplay was that sometimes you had to look for a planet with a lot of crystal if you were going to make a lot of ships that needed it.

[zoutzakje]

well, I just got destroyed in my game only got save games from a few minutes ago so I'm giving up this one. I've played against raid engine before so I know how to deal with him. But never fought against vicious exotic before so I got my ass handed to me. With normal exo's, higher AIP only makes them spawn in quicker succession, increasing in power at a fixed rate with each exo. But with vicious exotic, the AIP actually increases the power of the exo itself as well, which devastated me, as it took me too long to figure that out. Nearly 6 hours in and I had a mk IV Hunter/Killer rampaging around, along with a lot of other bad stuff. Shark A plot on 10/10 for both Ai's really didn't help me either ^^

lesson learned I suppose. Next time random AI gives me vicious exotic, I'll keep my AIP low instead of the usual high AIP games I play.
Also, armored warheads absolutely destroy Hunter/Killers. Don't know if that's intended or not.

[Draco18s]

Also, armored warheads absolutely destroy Hunter/Killers. Don't know if that's intended or not.

Sure it's intended.  At the cost of AIP.

[Nodor]

I find the third Fallen spire wave PAINFUL. 

Still, keeps the game challenging.