First game questions

[Vacuity]

OK...  I think I'm about at the endgame, though I seem to have taken an inordinate length of time to get there.

I've included my most recent save if people would prefer to look at that than read through the small wall of text.

I need to take one more planet to put myself four spaces from the second AI homeworld, this planet comes with a golem.  I need to take two more planets to knock out the D and E CSG networks.  None of these planets are in strategically critical locations or have particularly useful resources, so I intend to take planets that are relatively central to my occupied territories to avoid spreading myself out further unnecessarily.  One of the E CSGs is on the same planet as the SuperTerminal, and is reasonably central to my occupied space.

My current AIP is 214 and I have taken 16 planets in total (with a necessary further three to take).  There are no remaining data centres or co-processors.

I intend to take the planet with the golem which will act as a strike point and take the planet adjacent to the superterminal to knock out the D CSG network.

I then have a choice between taking the planet with the superterminal to knock out the E CSG network, or waiting until after I knock out the first AI before using the superterminal.  The thing is, there are a lot of goodies near to one of the AI homeworlds.  One level I world has a spire archive, and another level III world has a golem, a spire archive and a MicroParasite Fab.  Ideally I would like to take both of these, but neither can be taken without putting one or other of the Core planets on alert, so I need to wait for all this good stuff until after the first AI homeworld is eliminated.

If I was going to go for a straight one-two then I would make use of the superterminal now (in the process of knocking out the E CSG network), but as I am wanting to avail myself of these additional resources before confronting the second AI and my overall AIP is so low, it seems a little expedient to make use of those new resources to work the superterminal for longer when my AIP is actually much higher.

So... basically, superterminal just now, or superterminal after the first AI is gone?  (Assuming I'm actually capable of taking that first AI down)

[Diazo]

I would say superterminal now.

Mostly because I'm not sure this will work:

I then have a choice between taking the planet with the superterminal to knock out the E CSG network, or waiting until after I knock out the first AI before using the superterminal.

The AI Home Command Station can not be hurt until all Core Guard Posts (in the same system) are dead. Those Core Guard Posts can not be hurt until all CSG networks are destroyed.

The catch is I'm not sure when a CSG becomes vulnerable. Do you just have to destroy the AI Command Station or do you have to build a Human Command Station (and activate the superterminal) before you can destroy the CSG?

D.

[keith.lamothe]

The catch is I'm not sure when a CSG becomes vulnerable. Do you just have to destroy the AI Command Station or do you have to build a Human Command Station (and activate the superterminal) before you can destroy the CSG?

The latter, so if the ST has a CSG you can't do the ST between AI Homeworld assaults unless you're willing to accept some "interesting" tactical situations (i.e. two serious fights at once on two different planets).

[Vacuity]

Diazo, I didn't assume that I could destroy that CSG without building a command station and activating the superterminal, I was considering the possibility of eliminating a completely different E-network CSG on another planet.  But by the time I'd taken the following two planets, fought off another CPA, and so on and so forth, I pretty much decided to go straight for the superterminal with what I've got.  Just building a few more spirecraft and repairing that golem first.

I've noted that the idea of taking an unrelated planet just to eliminate the CSG didn't even occur to you though, so it seems that I'm going on roughly the right path.

keith.lamothe, I'm going to have to do that anyway though, right?  I mean, after I eliminate the one AI homeworld, I'll still need to go and bash the other.

[Faulty Logic]

keith.lamothe, I'm going to have to do that anyway though, right?  I mean, after I eliminate the one AI homeworld, I'll still need to go and bash the other.

Ok, so I'm not Keith, but yes. Yes you will. And it will hurt. Because not only does AIP jump up by 100, the AI you "killed" is still fully active, sending waves, contributing to cpas/special forces, and generally being a ruthless killing machine.

I would advise researching warp jammers, taking the goodies around the HW you mentioned, hacking the ST for all it's worth, and then hitting the HWs in sequence, in that order.

[Bognor]

(Minor spoiler, in that maybe you'd rather figure out the following for yourself.)

Normally I initially leave the command station standing on the first AI home world I attack, to avoid the +100 AIP.  So after attacking the other AI home world and destroying its command station, it only takes a short time to destroy the other home command station and win the game.

[Vacuity]

Ok, so I'm not Keith,

It wasn't intended to exclude others, so thanks for replying anyway.

I would advise researching warp jammers, taking the goodies around the HW you mentioned, hacking the ST for all it's worth, and then hitting the HWs in sequence, in that order.

And I hit a problem there, sadly.  I only found out about warp jammers last night after my play session and don't have enough "spare" knowledge to get them.  I need to take one more world in order to afford the knowledge cost.  The only strategically useful world to take at this moment is either the planet with the superterminal or a planet with a "spare" golem.  Golems are unquestionably useful, but I'm not sure I want to raise the AIP just in order to obtain one extra golem.  I think I'll just go ahead and work the superterminal and chalk it up to learning that warp jammers exist and are useful for obtaining things like spire archives (which I also didn't know existed until I found them in my scouting), so I should consider getting them.  While I work the superterminal, I can gather knowledge at that planet, get the warp jammers, take the goodies and then start grinding through the core and homeworlds.

Normally I initially leave the command station standing on the first AI home world I attack, to avoid the +100 AIP.  So after attacking the other AI home world and destroying its command station, it only takes a short time to destroy the other home command station and win the game.

Thanks for the advice.  I'd actually thought about this already; there are other games I've played which have similar mechanics (necessary long-term goals, but undesirable interim effects), so it seemed desirable to try and make this work.  I wasn't sure how practical it was, but that's useful to know it is indeed a viable strategy.

Thanks for all the help, everybody!  I'm getting ahead of myself a little but I've been looking at possible set ups for my next game already.  I'm all fired up for it!  I just need to finish this one first, and I'm guessing that the core and homeworlds will take a bit more time yet.

Edit: And I've learned something else: it's not necessary to build a command station in order to obtain knowledge using regular science labs, you only need to eliminate the AI's command station.  So...  I've got access to the extra 3,000 knowledge I need, I've researched warp jammers and am off to nab those spire archives and then hack that superterminal.

Edit2: Sweet!  Just made use of the penetrators "properly" to one-shot a fortress near a wormhole.  I previously removed the tachyon guardian, moved a scout in, then shifted a bunch of Mk I Penetrators in.  Fire.  Retreat.  Bang!  No more fortress and only superficial damage to the penetrators.  No losses.  I now appreciate these ships for all their limitations.

[Vacuity]

Woohoo!  Finished!

Even considering how I nearly died about an hour in (I lost about half a dozen manufactories before I managed to get my home planet defended properly), and lost numerous command stations in the first few hours, before I worked out the bare minimum of defence for planets (at least at this difficulty level).  I think that's pretty good for a first game.  Thanks very much for all the help people!

I think the most entertaining part of the game in many respects was hacking the superterminal.  Fighting for your life is fun, trusting your judgement on a knife-edge decision is also rewarding (assuming you get it right), put the two together and it was real edge-of-the-seat, will-he-or-won't-he, just-one-moment-longer stuff.  If my homeworld assaults went awry, I knew I could always fall back to heavily defended planets to re-fleet, but with that superterminal fight, I didn't have such an option.

Realising that the fight was starting to turn against me, finding my artillery golems, waiting, waiting... one more tick of the superterminal, perhaps?  Oh, nuts.  Another 200+ MkV ships just jumped in, forget the next tick.  Fire!  Why is the ammunition so slow?!  Ahh, the next tick!  More enemy ships!  And then it was all over but for the mopping up.

Seriously, thanks for the help everyone, the game would not have gone anything like as smoothly as it did.  Not least, I didn't notice that Penetrators were forcefield immune and so could eliminate troublesome structures with relatively little trouble now and again, but all the other information and suggestions were also massively helpful.  I'm going to start the next game, right away.  That was too much fun!

The only sad thing about this game is that I don't have any real-life friends who would likely enjoy playing it in co-op.  Playing with people from the Internet could be fun, but real-life friends would make a campaign wonderful.

To the devs, you've made a fantastic game.  I'll certainly offer it as a recommendation wherever I get a chance or opportunity.  I'm most grateful for the work.  I look forward to any future expansions.

[keith.lamothe]

Congratulations!

To the devs, you've made a fantastic game.  I'll certainly offer it as a recommendation wherever I get a chance or opportunity.  I'm most grateful for the work.  I look forward to any future expansions.

Thank you for the kind words   AIW is something pretty special; largely due to the community feedback we've gotten and the opportunity we've had to incorporate it.  We also look forward to working more on it and doing more expansions, when the time comes

[Bognor]

Way to go Vacuity! 

[Vacuity]

OK!

I'm a good chunk into my next game.  I've done things quite differently this time; different map style, multiple homeworlds,higher difficulty AIs,  the spirecraft and golem options set to "hard" and so on and so forth.

I've learnt quite a lot, but I'm once again facing some issues with some specifics.

The most urgent one is Neinzul youngsters.  I've basically learnt how to use neinzul enclaves to (I think) good effect; unlock the relevant turret technology which will be useful anyway and then spawn drones in any appropriate situation.  On the other hand, I recently picked up a MkV fab for youngling commandos.  Obviously, I'd like to use these, but even a top-tier enclave starship would be unable to produce them in the field; they can only be produced at the fab.  This is, in fact, the first time I've had the option of using younglings, so I may be missing something here.  With no option of producing them in the field, I believe I have to produce them beforehand and then store them in a transport or something.  I then have to transport them to the desired battlefield and release them there.  Ideally, I then re-collect any survivors and transport them back to a regeneration chamber between battles.  In other words, unlike lower level versions which can be produced in the field anywhere you have an enclave starship of an appropriate level present, the MkV versions are strategically very limited and finicky.  You have to produce them beforehand, organise them and transport them.  Mk I to IVs, I can produce anywhere, anytime with the necessary knowledge investments in enclaves.  Considering the likelihood of getting Mk II younglings from an ARS and the usefulness of the MK II turrets, it seems fairly likely that in most games, I'd make the investment to Mk II enclaves at least.
It seems... wrong... that the Mk V version is actually rather less useful than the lower marks.  More powerful, yes, but more useful, not really?

Second, a purely technical question as I've come to realise that my defence set ups are not very effective (I have tractor turrets moving incoming hostile ships off mines), I need to do a little experimentation.  If I place a forcefield between my turrets and incoming hostiles, will that affect their firepower?  For example, if I do some really crude ascii art, w = wormhole where hostiles will enter, s = the area covered by the forcefield, t = suitably long-ranged turret

   w

sssss
sssss
sssss

ttttttt

will the turrets still be able to fire at full strength at targets by the wormhole? (Oops!  Who left those EMP mines lying around?)

Another question is why my galaxy has no, I repeat, no reptite?  Not so much as a single rock of it.  I've got a rather small amount of pysite (61 rocks across the galaxy.  With 9 homeworlds, my ship cap of Mk I Ion Blasters is 72.  There's no possibility of getting an effective number of ships with this number of rocks).  On the other hand I've got tons of xampite and I have ebonite coming out of my ears!  I presume that this is some weird effect of having multiple homeworlds (I went for 9, to be different from the last game and to try out a bunch of different ships).  I had originally assumed that it would just scale up the number of each kind of rock by roughly nine, but that doesn't seem to be anything like the case.  I'm not really complaining about the amounts of xampite and ebonite, but the scarcity of pysite and complete non-existence of reptite has made getting basic level spirecraft very difficult (well, actually impossible in the case of reptite-requiring ships) and is significantly reducing my effective overall ship cap.  I've played with creating new maps and full visibility on to check and this seems to be true for all maps with a fairly high number of player homeworlds.

Looking forward to more useful answers!

[Hearteater]

Mark V Younglings don't self-attrition for exactly this reason.  I've suggested an alternative to this behaviour, but for now, enjoy!

Forcefields only protect what is under them, not what is fired through them.  So the forcefields in your ascii drawing would not be protecting the turrets, but also wouldn't be hindering them.  They would force the AI to move around them however.  There are some strategies that involve "mazing" with Force Fields, but generally this is only done on multi-HW starts were you get a massive cap of Force Fields.

[Vacuity]

Thanks for the info Hearteater.  In some senses, it's a shame that Mk V younglings behave just like regular fleet ships, on the other hand, they're impractical otherwise, so I suppose it's good to hear.

Also good to hear that forcefields don't interfere with turrets in that way.

I remembered what my last questions were.

One of my bonus ships was the anti-armour ship.  Shouldn't this ship be renamed the "I've-got-no armour ship"?  They die in droves!  When I am cleaning up minor bits of threat, they die by the dozen.  When I'm bashing a few hybrids over the head, they fall over themselves to go belly up by the score.  When I end up with my fleet getting cornered by a few thousand special reserve ships, they all pop their clogs within moments of the action starting.  Am I missing something with them?  Are they a specialist ship that I haven't spotted the special use for?

Also, when having multiple docks set to build the same ship, what's the deal with resources?  If I lose a single raid starship, my economy tanks as I have ten starship constructors all trying to build that one raid starship and all consuming vast quantities of crystal.  How and why does it work like that?  I only get one raid starship out the other end, but I seem to have paid for the best part of ten of them and my economy's ground to a halt in the meanwhile.  Are the partially completed raid starships somehow "stored" for the next time one dies and they can just be completed at that point?  Or am I missing something else again?

[LaughingThesaurus]

Right, and it's generally rare for an AI HW to have a very high number of connections because mapgen chooses the first AI HW from the set of planets furthest from the human HW(s), and chooses the second AI HW from the set of planets furthest from the human HW(s) and the first AI HW.  So it'd be very unlikely to pick a hub world on a spokes map, for instance: one of the hub's children would basically always be further from the other HWs than the hub.

This explains so much, because I remember playing a game on a 20 planet game just for kicks. I lost within like 3 minutes because I spawned adjacent to a homeworld and set off a raid engine and more or less every single alarm that exists in the world ever. What else I remember is the fact that the map was a thin-ish row of planets, and I was basically the second from the right... so I was in prime core world position for the second AI, judging by the information you gave here.

[Diazo]

One of my bonus ships was the anti-armour ship.  Shouldn't this ship be renamed the "I've-got-no armour ship"?  They die in droves!  When I am cleaning up minor bits of threat, they die by the dozen.  When I'm bashing a few hybrids over the head, they fall over themselves to go belly up by the score.  When I end up with my fleet getting cornered by a few thousand special reserve ships, they all pop their clogs within moments of the action starting.  Am I missing something with them?  Are they a specialist ship that I haven't spotted the special use for?

If I remember right, they have really high armor piercing so they should do really well against units with high armor. They also have a longish attack range so maybe some micro is required?

That's from looking at the stats, I'm not sure I've ever gotten that bonus ship.

Also, when having multiple docks set to build the same ship, what's the deal with resources?  If I lose a single raid starship, my economy tanks as I have ten starship constructors all trying to build that one raid starship and all consuming vast quantities of crystal.  How and why does it work like that?  I only get one raid starship out the other end, but I seem to have paid for the best part of ten of them and my economy's ground to a halt in the meanwhile.  Are the partially completed raid starships somehow "stored" for the next time one dies and they can just be completed at that point?  Or am I missing something else again?

I believe what happens is that when a ship is 100% built like that but can't deploy, it sits in the dock fully built until in can deploy. So if you had 10 starship constructors queue to build raids, the first one to finish would deploy, the other 9 would finish construction to 100% and wait until they could deploy. So yes, you are paying for 10 raids and only getting 1, but as soon as a raid is lost, you get the replacement immediately at no charge at that time.

Again, I have not tested that but that is what happens with energy so I would expect it to handle it the same way.

Just note that a unit sitting at 100% in the constructor stalls the build queue, it will not start on the next unit in its queue until that unit that is 100% built is deployed.

D.