Author Topic: Economy of Choice  (Read 5448 times)

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 03:42:46 pm »
My only remaining gripe with Golems is that they might be just a little bit too fragile. I can only use them on the front lines due to their nuanced supply mechanic... but if I take my eye off them for even a second they're eaten by Guardians!

I'm not suggesting I should be able to throw them right into the fray and go do something else, mind you. Simply that I be able to actually use them for something without having to make sure they have a clear escape path at all times for fear of them being munched before I can do anything about it.

More health for Golems, I say! 


Sounds like a mantis issue so it doesn't get forgotten post LotS release.
See my sig ;)

"See my sig," he says!

Ruddy cheek.  :)

Anyway, at the moment I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. Thinking out loud, as it were. I'll let it sit for a while before making a suggestion out of it.

But don't worry: I shan't forget!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 03:53:05 pm »
Ah I'm glad I haven't tried Zenith Remnant yet because everything I've heard about golems portrays them as these AWESOME super weapons and it would be heart breaking to try them out for the first time and be like "meh". Let me know when they're fixed!
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 03:58:08 pm »
Ah I'm glad I haven't tried Zenith Remnant yet because everything I've heard about golems portrays them as these AWESOME super weapons and it would be heart breaking to try them out for the first time and be like "meh". Let me know when they're fixed!

They were. Then they werent. Then they were too much. Then way not at all. Then before 4.0 they were pretty great, aside from the cursed one. People were finally happy. Then guardians came along, and now a bit of health is needed again.

It's just a matter of keeping then balanced with the rest of the game as it's evolved, it's not a matter of them being lamer than we claimed always or something. But striking the right balance has indeed been tough.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Malibu Stacey

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 04:42:49 pm »
It's just a matter of keeping then balanced with the rest of the game as it's evolved, it's not a matter of them being lamer than we claimed always or something. But striking the right balance has indeed been tough.

I do not envy you (and Keith) when trying to balance something this complex but I most definitely appreciate it =)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 04:56:28 pm »
It's our pleasure. Fortunately, we (usually) DO enjoy it. :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline wyvern83

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2010, 05:02:05 pm »
Regenerator golems are really fun but I'm not sure theyre... useful, specifically.  Well, they're niche - they don't specifically do much you can't accomplish with a frontline spacedock or even Enclave starship. They can keep up captured ships, or mk iv/v far from their factory, which is hella sweet. And they synergize well with low-hp units like space planes and deflector drones.   But general creep in unit HP, introduction of Guardians, and several other things have left them kinda weak relatively.  Ai Regenerators run out of hp REALLY REALLY FAST owing to the player doing way more damage to the ai than vice versa which is kinda terrible, since they have so much less hp in the first place.

Just thought I'd share my experience with the Regenerator for use later when it comes up. I'm sorry if its a little long, I tired to keep it easy to read.

This has been the only golem I've had much dealings with. In a v.3 game the regenerator was pretty useful and I'd pop it onto the front when I needed it and then retreat it. In one of my current v.4 games I attacked a system with with several thousand ships in with a fleet of over 6-10,000 and brought my golem along. I forgot there was an Eye in the system but decided to take it anyway.

I was watching from the galaxy map (my game was lagging abit) when I saw that my numbers were plummeting alarmingly fast so I had to pause the game and zoomed in to find it since I couldn't see it and the side-bar doesn't tell you how damaged it is. Finding it revealed it had 9% hp left (the cut off point for its ability), which is why I was losing ships. I ordered it and everything left out of the system and decided to reload and try again.

I might have restarted a couple times but to make a long story short I realized after taking a few more planets that my Regenerator was missing and concluded that it must have perished back in the final version of the battle I redid but since I had already advanced, and I wasn't interested in reloading again, I continued without it.

-------------------------------------------------
Conclusions I made or if you wish the TLDR version.

- In battles where thousands or tens of thousands of ships are present you have no easy way of keeping track of this golem to monitor its health.

- In battles where thousands or tens of thousands of ships are present this golem doesn't seem to help much. (My numbers drop regardless if it is working or not, it doesn't seem to keep up with the rate of attrition)

- I wasn't interested in micromanaging it anymore like I used too to the degree that I chose saving game progress/time already spent over going back for it when I realized it was dead.

- If I were to get another Regenerator Golem I'd probably only use it for surgical strikes with expensive ships rather than large fleet actions like I used to do.

- More health for it wouldn't hurt.  (edit: As pointed out by others in this thread)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 07:21:23 pm by wyvern83 »

Offline Winter Born

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 06:34:09 pm »
{SNIP

"See my sig," he says!

Ruddy cheek.  :)

Anyway, at the moment I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. Thinking out loud, as it were. I'll let it sit for a while before making a suggestion out of it.

But don't worry: I shan't forget!

No insult intended  :'(

I just end every post with

See my sig  :D

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 06:43:44 pm »
You know, I'm not sure AI regenerator golems are working at all?  I never see ships spawn at them.

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 08:13:32 pm »
Quote
It's just a matter of keeping then balanced with the rest of the game as it's evolved, it's not a matter of them being lamer than we claimed always or something. But striking the right balance has indeed been tough.
I don't doubt that they are awesome in their current state, even being a little too easy to kill.  I just meant that I'm excited to witness what they are capable of in their full power :P
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline Kron

  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Not an AI.
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2010, 10:44:37 pm »
They were. Then they werent. Then they were too much. Then way not at all. Then before 4.0 they were pretty great, aside from the cursed one. People were finally happy. Then guardians came along, and now a bit of health is needed again.

It's just a matter of keeping then balanced with the rest of the game as it's evolved, it's not a matter of them being lamer than we claimed always or something. But striking the right balance has indeed been tough.

Yeah, I get the distinct feeling that people have been whining to you guys about Golems for ages.

Hmmm, one really bizarre way of trying to crack the problem may be to allow unit modding. That way, everyone can try out their own ideas for Golems and the fanbase can brainstorm their own solution? ???
Time travel in the classic sense has no place in rational theory, but temporal distortion does exist on the quantum level, and more importantly it can be controlled.
- Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "For I Have Tasted the Fruit"

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2010, 10:45:55 pm »
WOAH THERE.

modding isnt something that will happen, much to my disapproval :p
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

TheMachineIsSentient

  • Guest
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2010, 10:26:17 am »
WOAH THERE.

modding isnt something that will happen, much to my disapproval :p

I think there is a quote somewhere saying in the very distant future, there would be.

Offline Vinraith

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2010, 04:12:15 pm »
WOAH THERE.

modding isnt something that will happen, much to my disapproval :p

I think there is a quote somewhere saying in the very distant future, there would be.

Yeah, I believe it amounted to "after active development has ceased," because modding coupled with Arcen's lovable but completely psychotic development schedule really wouldn't work anyway.

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: Economy of Choice
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2010, 10:24:11 am »
Mantis Issue #1535 - More health for Golems!