Author Topic: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak  (Read 6006 times)

Offline WarpSprite

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Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« on: August 20, 2010, 03:19:44 pm »
First let me apologize if this has already been addressed I search the forums but couldn't find much on this.

Hi long time lurker and huge AI war fan so of course my first official post on the forums had to be about QQ :D. But in all seriousness I would like to thank the people at Arcen games for making one of the very best strategy games I have ever played and taking the time to continually update it and listen to community feedback so thoroughly. Now on to the QQ.

As the title of this thread suggests I think Dreadnoughts are stupidly weak as of now 3.186 and actually I kind of always thought that to some extent throughout the games life. Now I am no expert at AI war and there is a good possibility that I just don't understand how to fully utilize this unit but really as the game is now I just can't ever seem to justify building these things. I mean if i had the choice to get a dreadnought or 20 mark1 frigates I would choose the later. To begin with you have to spend 2k knowledge just to unlock these things and then you can only build five of them at a speed of 45mins each? To top that off their damage is pathetically weak and really the only thing I would ever use them for was a glorified sniper of enemy structures (this was back in the days when command stations had 99,000 hp now I'm seeing some that have 1,500,000 hp and shields to boot). Now I usually play the game at a 7.6 diff with ai hives enabled and initially i thought the dreads would be a good counter to these new tough and very deadly additions to the game. Boy was I wrong, the hives just blew right past the dreads and killed my comm station, even had time to whittle down the 9million hp shield protecting it this was while the dreads were shooting them. I mean dreadnoughts are worth little more then glorified tanks in large fleet on fleet warfare and your telling me that they get rofl stomped by an equal number of hives to? Now I understand that the Hives are new and still undergoing balance and in all honesty i am still trying to figure out how to deal with these buggers but really one would think that dreads would excel at this sort of fight. Anyway i could go on but its mostly just me complaining so ill stop at these points and list some changes that i think would help dreads.

Dreadnought changes
1. Either buff damage output giving them more bite against bigger ships and structures or make dreads do aoe damage thus giving them more uses in fleet on fleet combat
2. Give dreads multi-turrets similar to ai hives. I mean as it is now technically speaking an AI hive ship with its mounted turrets more resemble the classical image of a dreadnought then there current form and them having multi-turrets would help them spread out there damage and prevent overkill though if option one is implemented this may not be necessary (note this is mostly an aesthetic thing and isn't that important overall).
3. Speed up their build time. With star ships now building at 2 minutes I don't see why tier 1 dreads take 45.
4. Buff their speed or range. Again may be to overpowering if option one or two is implemented.

Below I have copy the definition for dreadnought out of Websters to help emphasis what it is a dreadnought is suppose to be and what most people think of when they hear the word dreadnought.

dread·nought
Pronunciation: \?dred-?no?t, -?nät\
Function: noun
Date: 1806

1 : a warm garment of thick cloth; also : the cloth
2 [Dreadnought, British battleship] a : battleship b : one that is among the largest or most powerful of its kind

Well anyways I'm going to cut off my rant there as i really could go on and on but suffice to say i feel that while the game has been going through continual evolutions dreads have not and have really fallen out of there role. Again I would like to thank all the wonderful people at arcen games for creating and improving AI war and listening to rants like mine and unfortunately for you guys I love your game and plan on sticking around here (and making more post like this) for a long time.

TLDR: BUFF DREADSSSS!!!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 07:32:48 pm by WarpSprite »

Offline CogDissident

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 03:22:56 pm »
I do agree, Riot Control Starships have mostly replaced the reason to have dreadnaut starships. I honestly don't see a "role" that they fill now in any fleets. Either replace them with one of the new proposed types of starships, or some kind of update/tweak to the current ones as above.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 03:25:04 pm »
Welcome to the forums :)


Yea, the Dreads have routinely been the subject of forum thrashings.  They're quite powerful against starships (and fortresses and other heavy defense, though not forcefields), but the name "Dreadnought" typically invokes a much more "General Purpose Badass" image in people's minds.  I know personally when I hear it I think "Oh, the size class above 'Battleship', likely to kick the tar out of any other ship class that is not either named for a mythological creature or a planetoid", but that's not what's to be found here ;)

Not sure how much is likely to change about them, but we're thinking about it.


And yes, the Riots were pretty much solely invented to take the "engine shredder" role that Dreads played in the past (that was nerfed away a while before the Riots came on the scene), and took on a bit of a life of their own.
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Offline carlosjuero

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 03:27:44 pm »
>.>
Just remember... the AI Dreadnoughts get the same buffs/debuffs
<.<

ON the one hand you can say "meh, weak"

ON the other you can say "WTH?!" with an "OUCH!" thrown in for good measure [usually occurs after AI throws 2 or 3 dreads through a wormhole at ya].

;)

Offline Vinraith

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 03:31:12 pm »
It might be sufficient to change their name to make it clearer what they're for. Something like "Hunter-Killer" (just to throw out a random possibility, not to be taken seriously) might better connote "this is a hard counter against other starships." "Dreadnought" really does sort of imply "big badass ship that's good against everything."

Offline WarpSprite

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 03:32:45 pm »
Ya but with AI hives enable having the AI throw 2 or 3 dreads my way is the least of my worries and the mega defenses I have built up to protect me against these planet destroying hive raids would just rolf stomp a couple of silly dreads. Also amazing fast response there keith I am impressed.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 03:34:57 pm by WarpSprite »

Offline CogDissident

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 03:32:54 pm »
Actually, as starship-killer ships, why not use the art for the proposed Ion Cannon starship? It looks very much like a "this kills big ships and gets mobbed by smaller ships" type of ship, and the name also sort of fits the role pretty well too.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 03:52:56 pm »
Well.

Now I feel out of the loop for keeping dreads as one of my early game unlocks.

They are by far the best anti-starship weapon I have found and their extreme range gives me a nice set of extra options when attacking a system when they are part of my fleet.

I haven't had a chance to use them in a game with the new guard posts yet mind you, so we'll see how that changes things.

D.

Offline Spikey00

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 04:44:11 pm »
In a current game I was using a full group of I/II along with other misc. starships, and they still take forever to destroy structures and the like, even if they have such a great range.  They're a nice support ship, but I would like to see that they inherit a greater bonus against structures; there isn't another type of starship that is designed to counter structures (raid doesn't qualify).
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Offline Trezamere

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 06:11:36 pm »
The AI doesn't use starships enough for them to be effective IMO.  It might change with Hives and the new guard posts but in any event I'm with the crowd that either the name or the ship in general should be changed, because yes, Dreadnought does invoke thoughts of some super bad ass ship because that's the definition of a Dreadnought.  Artillary Gunship or something IDK  :P

Also yes, it's kind of silly they do such piddling amounts of damage to the structures they are supposedly good against.

Offline RCIX

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2010, 07:13:48 pm »
Welcome to the forums :)
ARCAN games
And now to our spelling and capitaliztion nitpick: it's Arcen games, not ARCAN games :P
:)

I'm liking the idea of renaming the Dreadnought :)
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 07:27:38 pm »
Arson Games?  Arlan Games?  ORLANDO games?  A.R.C.E.N. games?
AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

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Oh, and an official welcome to the forums, you lurker.  :)
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Offline WarpSprite

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 07:36:20 pm »
Fixed

On another note are dreadnoughts suppose to be good against Hives cause right now I'm not seeing it.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 07:47:02 pm »
On another note are dreadnoughts suppose to be good against Hives cause right now I'm not seeing it.
They're good at doing hull damage against those, not really against the forcefields.
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Offline lanstro

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Re: Dreadnoughts seem stupidly weak
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 07:51:30 pm »
I find dreadnoughts fairly useful in the right situations.  In the old endgame (where to crack the core planet you had to throw everything at the core), they were often some of the last units to die as the rest of your fleet dropped like flies, and several times they were the ones which got me over the line in the final assault.

Of course, extremely useful against starship commanders.

For such a niche role, the name dreadnought may be too grand, and the knowledge cost may be a tad too high, but they don't seem that unbalanced.