Author Topic: Dreadnaughts and their role  (Read 3929 times)

Offline HellishFiend

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2010, 10:20:22 pm »
The mkI dreadnoughts now do 3200 damage per shot, whereas mkI bombards do 8000.  However, the recharge for the bombards is 7.5x the time of the bombards, which mainly just means that dreadnoughts do 24,000 damage in the same timespan and don't overkill smaller ships, instead spreading it around.

I do like the idea of them doing more engine damage. I've upped it from 50 across all three tiers to 150, 250, and 350 respectively.  Should be interesting.

Another thing I'd like to see dreadnoughts do (though its not as important now that they dont fire multiple shots) is to change targets when theyve finished disabling an incoming ship. This is especially important if the ship is out of range and harmless, and there are other ships still approaching.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2010, 10:22:26 pm »
The mkI dreadnoughts now do 3200 damage per shot, whereas mkI bombards do 8000.  However, the recharge for the bombards is 7.5x the time of the bombards, which mainly just means that dreadnoughts do 24,000 damage in the same timespan and don't overkill smaller ships, instead spreading it around.

I do like the idea of them doing more engine damage. I've upped it from 50 across all three tiers to 150, 250, and 350 respectively.  Should be interesting.

Another thing I'd like to see dreadnoughts do (though its not as important now that they dont fire multiple shots) is to change targets when theyve finished disabling an incoming ship. This is especially important if the ship is out of range and harmless, and there are other ships still approaching.

This is another very good point.  I've toggled on that attribute now.
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Offline RCIX

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 10:26:40 pm »
Well, can some ship get the percentage damage feature? that would be so nice to see...
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 10:28:04 pm »
if that was in play before, it wouldve made dreadnaughts far too over powered imo >.>

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Offline x4000

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 10:30:25 pm »
Yeah, that could be interesting for the future -- is that in the ship mechanics suggestions area?  It's basically like variants on Demi in the final fantasy series, right?  That's a pretty interesting effect.
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Offline RCIX

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 10:32:00 pm »
Yeah, that could be interesting for the future -- is that in the ship mechanics suggestions area?  It's basically like variants on Demi in the final fantasy series, right?  That's a pretty interesting effect.
Yep i think so -- i'll post a topic on it if it's not.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 10:45:05 pm »
The mkI dreadnoughts now do 3200 damage per shot, whereas mkI bombards do 8000.  However, the recharge for the bombards is 7.5x the time of the bombards, which mainly just means that dreadnoughts do 24,000 damage in the same timespan and don't overkill smaller ships, instead spreading it around.

I do like the idea of them doing more engine damage. I've upped it from 50 across all three tiers to 150, 250, and 350 respectively.  Should be interesting.

Well thats also true ;) But bombards have much higher range - ie they stay outside of all threats and thus rarely overkill when a fleet is with them (the last shot is usually always 1 or 2 shots from a bombard)

I am not really asking for change or something, just thinking loudly that even now, dreadnoughts are not a viable research path because... you get MKIV bombards in the normal unit tiers which are ass-kicking redefined. And not only do you get these but you get a lot of these bombards vs only few very expensive and slow to build dreadnoughts. Especially MK3 dreadnoughts, i wonder if theres even a single person who ever build them?

The only reason i am sticking to this line of thought is that i have bombards in my current game and i don't see me researching dreadnoughts ever. Engine damage is more of a problem than a bonus - because disabled ships can still shoot and still exist = makes clearing a sector much more time intensive when SF Post traffic gets stuck mid-sector but your ships move from guard post to guard post wiping them clean. Especially because dreadnoughts have such a long range, that they tend to shoot a lot of things only once so you have slowed down but still dangerous traffic... thats even worse than traffic on full speed (at least it moves ! ,p)

Atm dreadnoughts are not overpowered or underpowered, they just have no clear role. And because of that people go for raid ships, leech ships or the entire flag/spire/zenith line - why go for dreadnoughts if you can get damage boosters that stack AND do multiple shots ^^?
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Offline x4000

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 10:48:06 pm »
But -- bombards have much less health, and are not available in every game.  Dreadnoughts are always there.  I definitely agree that probably dreadnoughts are redundant if you happen to have bombards in your mix already, but then again you can double up and have even more firepower than usual with that.  And the dreads are better at starship killing by a good margin, I'd say.  I'm not really arguing the merits of dreads over bombards, but neither one is useless, either.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 11:12:05 pm »
Yeah agreement there ;D I wish we could have a global toggle (like group move) that turns engine damage in extra real damage (maybe shield piercing too? ,p) .. a global unit choice, so to speak

That way players could decide whether they want engine damage or not (because really, most of the time engine damage is more a hindrance but sometimes its neat to have.. )
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Offline x4000

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2010, 11:18:07 pm »
Those sorts of toggles are unlikely with this game -- that's the innate sort of design of ships, what their passive abilities are.  Turning on/off active/passive abilities like that is largely for RTT games in my opinion.  Things like FRD mode are so widely applicable that they are relevant for virtually every ship in the game.  Stuff like engine damage only would be a toggle for a tiny minority of ships that actually do engine damage -- hence the difference in my styling.  I've just never been a fan of that sort of game that uses a lot of abilities, and even in games that I really like that have them, I tend never to remember to use the abilities -- kind of a waste, I know, but it's just not how I tend to think in RTS games.
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2010, 11:25:58 pm »
I agree, lets keep it at least homeworld esque and keep away from nexus :)

Although I do kinda feel that the 'suppress engines of anyone nearby' is too out of line for a dreadnaught. If a designated engine supressent ship were to be created, I wouldn't oppose it there.. but..

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Offline HellishFiend

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2010, 11:29:07 pm »
Although I do kinda feel that the 'suppress engines of anyone nearby' is too out of line for a dreadnaught. If a designated engine supressent ship were to be created, I wouldn't oppose it there.. but..


Lance...keep in mind the dreadnought just lost its multiple shots....  If anything, it will still be worse off for disabling large amounts of incoming ships than when it had multiple shots without the engine damage target switching logic. It's not at all out of line for the ship to switch to an enemy ship that is moving closer to the group - and thus more of a threat - vs shooting at a target thats already stopped.
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2010, 11:34:31 pm »
I know :p I probably am going to be responsible for the starship nerf of '010...

Maybe my issue is that I am playing far below my level......

Anyway, my preference - I would rather my dreadnaughts not leave ships scatted across the map - I prefer them to waltz straight into range of my meat grinder.. .err... fleet starships.
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2010, 11:42:36 am »
I probably am going to be responsible for the starship nerf of '010...

 :)

If so, maybe we could name the resulting effect after you - you know, for posterity's sake...    ;)
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Offline I-KP

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Re: Dreadnaughts and their role
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2010, 12:31:18 pm »
But, in future DLC I'll try to create a starship line that is better for your purposes, of engine-damage crowd control.  

That'd be cool, thanks.  I'm still going to be using the dreadnoughts extensively in my current game, so I should have some insight as to how the change pans out after you release the next patch.

Cool -- oh, and can you make a post about the sort of starship line you'd like to see in the unit suggestions area?  That would save me the time, which I'm quite short on this weekend.  Thanks!

I've had a stab at some sprites for this line of starships: http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,2997.msg18788.html#msg18788
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