Dreadnaughts and their role

[Lancefighter]

Dreadnaughts; These seem to be out of line. Multiple attacks are great, except for that they split their fire. This is not so great. However, there are a large number on the field - 5 being the ship cap for all sizes. Not only do I think this is a bit much, but I also feel that they are strong vs starships. 5 mk1 dreads will kill most any starship in 2 volleys. Sure, great anti-starship capabilities.. awesome range. Sounds great. until you add in the engine damage and multiple shots. I feel this part is out of line. Their ability should lie somewhere in the 'killing starships' category, which they do. However, the large number of dreads on the field means that they can suppress a good deal of other targets too.
Instead: Make them into long range BEAM LAZORS PLATFORM.. ok really, just decrease the number of shots, increase their shots power, and make the shots come from farther apart (like their wingie bits, for instance), Also, decrease the number on the field to 3 per mk level. Given like 2 shots per dread, at about 3x the power of the old shots, you are losing a little bit of damage, but I dont think thats so bad given the sheer number you ca have on the field. Also, make their bullets travel a wee bit faster? They are incredibly slow - a dread can shoot off some 6-8 volleys before they hit the target..

Above was reposted directly from the raiding 4 systems away topic..

Most of that I still agree with, however its been mentioned that having 15 dreads on the field is apparently the way to go...

The dread seems to suffer from:
1) losing damage to multiple targets
2) having way too many energy bombs on the field travelling...
3) all the energy bombs look lame when stacked together.

Basic points then:
1) less shots, more damage per shot
2) more bullet speed
3) Make them use awesome railgun ammo. Really! it can have a cool spiral-y bullet effect and go at ludicrous speeds... *shrug* Did i mention they need to go faster?

[RCIX]

To add to this, i feel that the Dreadnoughts should return to their FF bustin, artillery cannon roots.

I just had an idea: What if the percentage damage idea me and someone else (not sure, feel free to step up if it was you) was bandying about was added to the dreadnnought? That way dreadnoughts are awesome at softening up targets, especially high health ones, while they are not very applicable against other fleet ships.

[HellishFiend]

I actually like dreadnoughts the way they are. The multiple target engine damaging shots are a staple of my current fleet composition strategy.

[Lancefighter]

To add to this, i feel that the Dreadnoughts should return to their FF bustin, artillery cannon roots.

I just had an idea: What if the percentage damage idea me and someone else (not sure, feel free to step up if it was you) was bandying about was added to the dreadnnought? That way dreadnoughts are awesome at softening up targets, especially high health ones, while they are not very applicable against other fleet ships.

not my idea, but not a horrible one.. however, i just think that would feel right in this case
Giving them a bonus towards high hp stuff is something they mostly already have - the only high hp unit they arent great aganst is forcefields.. but - They outrange laser turrets, meaning all you need to take down a forcefield is time.

[x4000]

As a forcefield buster, their range made them far overpowered -- and the raid line already serves that role, so I don't want to double up.  Changed in the next version:  

-Dreadnought Starships no longer have multiple shots per attack, but now have a stronger attack.

EDIT:  Also, I'm not inclined to make their shots faster.  These are basically long-range artillery ships, and a somewhat floaty shot is pretty much the norm for that role.  Kind of like sea-to-land missiles off of battleships, which go long ranges at comparably modest speeds to how long it takes to get there.

[Lancefighter]

took me forever to realize that you moved this thread out to general discussion :x
most forums seem to place a notifier where the thread was so people know its moved, yet this one does not

As per incredibly slow floaty shots, i suppose it doesnt really matter the speed of the shot.. but... units tend to stop firing if a dreadnaught 22000 units away shoots the final blow on a structure. this gets mighty annoying when the structure is a special ops command post, and all your small units are clustered around it.

>.>I'm sure its like that for a good reason, its just that 'dead' units seem to stay alive far too long with all those floaty shots headed their way.
I dont particularly want them insta-hit, but making them a wee bit faster would help..

[HellishFiend]

-Dreadnought Starships no longer have multiple shots per attack, but now have a stronger attack.

Damn, that's going to mess me up a little. I really liked the dreadnoughts ability to disable large amounts of incoming enemy ships. I suppose as long as the net attack gain is positive, it will be ok, though.

[x4000]

All of those topic moved topics would fill up the forums for this type of thing, unfortunately -- so I don't put them there, assuming that people subscribe to topics they are interested in.

Interesting point about the range.  I've added this to the next one:

-Shots that are incoming from longer than 20,000 distance are now not used in short-range overkill prevention, which leads to quicker kills in most cases.  Previously it had to be a sniper shot.

[x4000]

-Dreadnought Starships no longer have multiple shots per attack, but now have a stronger attack.

Damn, that's going to mess me up a little. I really liked the dreadnoughts ability to disable large amounts of incoming enemy ships. I suppose as long as the net attack gain is positive, it will be ok, though.

The net attack gain is negative, actually, but given the improvements to targeting this makes them better at their primary job -- disabling large targets such as starships.  Splitting their focus between that and being a crowd control starship was either going to make them overpowered at both, or useless at at least one of them.  But, in future DLC I'll try to create a starship line that is better for your purposes, of engine-damage crowd control.  Right now, the fleet/alien starship line is your best bet (not for engine damage, but for damage in general).  Sorry to mess you up, I always hate to do that to someone, but it's a bit inevitable from time to time to make sure that everything stays generally cohesive and sensible as a design. :/

[HellishFiend]

But, in future DLC I'll try to create a starship line that is better for your purposes, of engine-damage crowd control.  

That'd be cool, thanks.  I'm still going to be using the dreadnoughts extensively in my current game, so I should have some insight as to how the change pans out after you release the next patch.

[x4000]

But, in future DLC I'll try to create a starship line that is better for your purposes, of engine-damage crowd control.  

That'd be cool, thanks.  I'm still going to be using the dreadnoughts extensively in my current game, so I should have some insight as to how the change pans out after you release the next patch.

Cool -- oh, and can you make a post about the sort of starship line you'd like to see in the unit suggestions area?  That would save me the time, which I'm quite short on this weekend.  Thanks!

[HellishFiend]

But, in future DLC I'll try to create a starship line that is better for your purposes, of engine-damage crowd control.  

That'd be cool, thanks.  I'm still going to be using the dreadnoughts extensively in my current game, so I should have some insight as to how the change pans out after you release the next patch.

Cool -- oh, and can you make a post about the sort of starship line you'd like to see in the unit suggestions area?  That would save me the time, which I'm quite short on this weekend.  Thanks!

Will do.

[Lancefighter]

No problem with the moving stuff, I didn't think of it that way. I just dont subscribe to stuff, as I'm a habitual forum ... watcher? (other 5 letter word that starts with w )

As per engine assaults, it just seemed to me like the dreadnaughts were becoming /too/ useful, especially with 5 shots per dread per mk level per 3ish sec...

Perhaps you could also increase each shots engine damage, and make them starship stoppers? >.>

It would be kinda interesting to see an artillery platform shooting AoE EMP/engine damage though..

[eRe4s3r]

While talking about dreadnoughts, hopefully the lowest tier dreadnought has about 80% more firepower than the highest tier Zenith Bombardment ship, because i can build 40 of these.. vs the much lower limit of dreadnoughts + their MUCH energy higher costs

These bombardment ships also survive a LOT of battles because they outrange anything - even marauder daggers - so dreadnoughts are not imbalanced when they can solo 50 daggers via kiting... just sayin

[x4000]

The mkI dreadnoughts now do 3200 damage per shot, whereas mkI bombards do 8000.  However, the recharge for the bombards is 7.5x the time of the bombards, which mainly just means that dreadnoughts do 24,000 damage in the same timespan and don't overkill smaller ships, instead spreading it around.

I do like the idea of them doing more engine damage. I've upped it from 50 across all three tiers to 150, 250, and 350 respectively.  Should be interesting.