Author Topic: Flagship Efficiency  (Read 2165 times)

Offline Trandrin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Flagship Efficiency
« on: September 02, 2012, 11:46:33 am »
After the updates took the Spire/Zenith Star ships from the Flag ship line and then the 10k energy cost for combat star ships, how useful overall is investing in Flag Ships? Their damage boost to nearby ships is not the highest and their combat ability is okay but not awesome. While both of those things are nice to have is the Flag Ship a little underwhelming now? Or is there a good reason to have them around and put knowledge behind them to increase the mark you possess?

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 11:49:17 am »
I seem to remember high level players wanting them around for their quite valuable boosts. But I can't speak for myself, as I tend to be far to distracted and casual to think it more complex terms.

*rabble*
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 11:50:43 am »
If starships weren't capped to using half the boost the mk I uses (starships capped at 20%) and said cap can be provided by a military I station anyway, I'd use them more maybe.
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 12:49:39 pm »
Unless you have a particular bonus ship, or a particular champion ability, flagships are the only way the human player has of getting munitions boosting on an AI planet.  That's pretty important even if you just park one with your bombards/sentinels/snipers/etc.

The flagships themselves aren't too shabby at killing certain things, either.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 02:00:45 pm »
The problem is that if I want to pick up extra mk versions of the flagship I do it to it's direct combat abilities which are nice, not the munitions boost which I think is great for a free ship, but terrible to upgrade due to munitions alone.

I guess what I mean is I wish it's munitions abilities scaled better with cap with the acceptance its direct combat abilities would suffer. Right now I think of it as a zenith ship (because the two share so many bonuses, oddly enough) except it sacrificies an addition bonus damage slot in return for munition boosting. Pretty sweet deal for a mk I, not nearly as sweet for the mk III.

To put it in a third most concise way: The mk I munitions is awesome, the mk III muntions is terrible. I wish it followed the military comm lines of increases, where if the mk I had 40% the mk II would have 100%, and the III 200%. Even if the flagship lost all its bonuses to pay for it, I would use the flagship more for it would truly act as a flagship, not as it currently is as a slightly more frail zenith starship that also provides muntion boosting.

It's hard to describe...but I'm trying to say the flagship and zenith starship feel too alike, with exact general dps (flagship actually stronger due to fewer shots and armor piercing) the two sharing so many bonuses, with the only point of contention really being do you want 20% more hp with the zenith or 40% munitions boost with the flagship when both are mk I.

EDIT: What a clusterfudge of a post. I'm trying to say 40% munitions for mk I is awesome, but 100% for III is terrible, yet military stations seem to get the numbers right. Simultaneously, I am saying zenith and flagships feel too samey, and that the flagship should be nerfed in dps compared to the zenith to help balance my desired increase in II and III munitions boosting.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 02:09:48 pm by chemical_art »
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 02:58:02 pm »
i think I mentioned elsewhere they could maybe manage to also get armor boosting, which I feel might be useful.

(starships atm are immune to armor boosting though)
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline Kahuna

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
  • Kahuna Matata!
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 03:23:31 pm »
If you don't have Munitions Boosters as your bonus ships you might wanna unlock MarkII Flagships. It depends. I'd not unlock MarkIIIs though. Is and IIs will boost a nice amount of turrets and/or ships. Munitions Boosters (and Flagships) work extremely well with heavy defenses. It's about using them to boost the turrets instead of ships. 10 MarkI Munitions Boosters + Heavy Defenses = 2k ship wave auto stopped while my main fleet is doing its stuff. You could replace the Munitions Boosters with 2 or 3 Flagships. MarkI Flagship has 100k dps and 400k dps with damage multipliers and 15 million cap health. Pretty good.

2 examples of how to use attack boosting:
1: Offensive/Defensive (No Munitions Boosters)
MarkI and II Missile Frigates + Long Range Bonus Ship (Sniper, Sentinel, Zenith Bombard, maybe Impulse Reaction Emitters, Space Tanks and Anti-Armors) + MarkI and II Flagships + Riot Starships
If you're going to do this you might wanna select a bonus ship which has bonus vs Polycrystal to protect the expensive Flagships.

2: Defensive (Turtle(Munitions Boosters))
MarkI and II Missile Frigates + Munitions Boosters + Heavy Defenses + MarkI Flagships + Riot Starships
Missile Frigates because they outrange most ships and with MarkI Munitions Boosters they have "1,8 damage multiplier" vs everything
If you really want attack boosting. Pick 1 or 2 depending on your play style.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Trandrin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Flagship Efficiency
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 09:40:53 am »
In most of my games the mk2 is as far as I will go with the Flagship, this was before the change to its knowledge/energy cost so I will have to play more with higher price. The Mk3 seemed to be a tad on the costly side for me before this change. Enhancing its munitions capacity or adding Armor boost at cost of combat ability sounds like a fair deal.  We already have plenty of star ships for actually bringing the hurt around. Maybe having the Flagship more focused on fleet support would be nice.