Author Topic: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?  (Read 10431 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2011, 11:09:38 am »
Very interesting thread, thanks for the link.

And yes, I can certainly say I've cracked a number of games that I bought myself, because of whatever draconian DRM they had in them.  This would have been back in the SecuROM days, mainly.  That sort of crap is absolutely terrible for customers (AND developers, as it costs them money and doesn't do much anyway).

Anyhow, no worries on the opening post.  Sometimes folks initially come to vent about this or that, and often those have turned into some of the more productive and long term members, actually.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 11:15:12 am »
I won't speak for all the staff here (though I think we all feel the same way here), but I know that I personally feel the same way as Chris about piracy. I don't like it, and I generally won't spend a lot of money on a game that has a lot of it. For example I know of one game that I'd really like to play, but since they have a system that checks with a server before you can install the game, I won't buy it. I've been trying to talk to one company about a game for almost a year now.  I've told them this, they haven't changed anything. Nor have I changed mine.

There are exceptions for me of course, one of them being if I pay a small amount for the game, then sometimes I'll deal with DRM like above because if I lose access to the game, I'm not out that much money. But, I've paid full price for games that I really like in the past, and am willing to do so again, but only if the DRM scheme is non-obtrusive, or non-existent.

Offline x4000

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 11:21:23 am »
It's not just limited to games, either.  There was some graphics software I used to use a lot in the late 90s, and I paid almost $100 for it as I recall.  Small company.  Their registration process was a real pain, involving me calling them after installing it the second time, etc (what, nobody ever has a windows installation they need to reinstall, they think?).

A decade later I wanted to reinstall that software to use it for some stuff in AVWW and AI War.  Well, guess what -- they've been out of business since a couple of years after I bought it, and since it was a relatively small thing it's not like pirates have archived it, either.  That whole "pirates have to archive stuff" is just BS, which is another reason I like my CD key approach.  I actually still HAVE the software on CD, and the license keys for it, but without their activation servers it's utterly useless.  And even if I did want to go on pirate sites to look for a crack for this (which doesn't exist), I'm exposing myself to all sorts of malware, porn, viruses, etc, that I'd rather not have to wade through just to use a product I bought direct from the developer.

Ahem.  Anyhow, a lot of thought went into how we handle our whole system because of past experiences like this, and that's why I like the CD keys approach.  Download.come and other sources will have those files forever, so 20 years from now even if a meteor hits the city I live in, it should still be accessible and usable for anyone who wants to do so.
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Offline Parogar

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 11:26:27 am »
I won't speak for all the staff here (though I think we all feel the same way here), but I know that I personally feel the same way as Chris about piracy. I don't like it, and I generally won't spend a lot of money on a game that has a lot of it. For example I know of one game that I'd really like to play, but since they have a system that checks with a server before you can install the game, I won't buy it. I've been trying to talk to one company about a game for almost a year now.  I've told them this, they haven't changed anything. Nor have I changed mine.

There are exceptions for me of course, one of them being if I pay a small amount for the game, then sometimes I'll deal with DRM like above because if I lose access to the game, I'm not out that much money. But, I've paid full price for games that I really like in the past, and am willing to do so again, but only if the DRM scheme is non-obtrusive, or non-existent.


The worst DRM I've encountered recently, are in single player games, that act like MMORPGS. I recently purchased Assasins creed 2 for the PC.

What - A - Nightmare.

For starters, you must create an account, and login to play like it's an MMO , but that's not all. You also have to have the disc inserted, and activate a cd-key, as well as update to the latest version to be allowed to login.

You know what, if they're going to do all that why NOT just go the extra mile? Just give me a USB-laser eye scanner, that will scan my retinas, as well as require me to fill out a contract with a photo-ID. Will that convince you I'm not a pirate!?!?

Ubisoft is getting really bad with this DRM stuff.

Offline Parogar

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 11:41:19 am »
It's not just limited to games, either.  There was some graphics software I used to use a lot in the late 90s, and I paid almost $100 for it as I recall.  Small company.  Their registration process was a real pain, involving me calling them after installing it the second time, etc (what, nobody ever has a windows installation they need to reinstall, they think?).

A decade later I wanted to reinstall that software to use it for some stuff in AVWW and AI War.  Well, guess what -- they've been out of business since a couple of years after I bought it, and since it was a relatively small thing it's not like pirates have archived it, either.  That whole "pirates have to archive stuff" is just BS, which is another reason I like my CD key approach.  I actually still HAVE the software on CD, and the license keys for it, but without their activation servers it's utterly useless.  And even if I did want to go on pirate sites to look for a crack for this (which doesn't exist), I'm exposing myself to all sorts of malware, porn, viruses, etc, that I'd rather not have to wade through just to use a product I bought direct from the developer.

Ahem.  Anyhow, a lot of thought went into how we handle our whole system because of past experiences like this, and that's why I like the CD keys approach.  Download.come and other sources will have those files forever, so 20 years from now even if a meteor hits the city I live in, it should still be accessible and usable for anyone who wants to do so.

What software is it? I get really fascinated with the way stuff works, and lately I've been practicing modding stuff with w32dasm + hex editor. I'm by no means a pro, I just try and learn as much stuff as I can that college doesn't teach me. being a computer science student in a regular-old community college isn't fun. It's filled with liberal arts courses, and an emphasis on archaic technology.

So I try and learn as much as I can about how stuff works. I'll probably never be as good as most people, I learn things at a slower pace, but once I know something, I know it. Lately I've been trying out hex-editing and modding software, to remove nag screens, ect.

My professors frown on it, because they call it "cracking", and won't speak about it, where as I simply see it as an opportunity not to steal, but to learn how things work and what-not.

I might be able to patch it, 99% of the time it's just changing a jump - if - greater, into a jump -if below. And if it's really old, it should be even easier to get it working.

It probably has something like

if(!Activation->ReturnSucess())
{
      MessageBox(hWnd,"Sorry, we could not communicate with the activation servers.... we didn't think our company would go under... you're screwed!","LOLOLOL",  MB_OK | MB_ICONERROR);
     this->m_Screw_Over_Customer();
}

else
   {
       MessageBox(hWnd,"Well, well, aren't you glad you the doc invented that delorean." ","Welcome to 1999", MB_OK);
        this->m_Allow_Customer_To_Use_What_He_Paid_For();

   }

So you just have to mod the logic a bit. If you paid for it, you should be able to use it. I support developers 100%, but it's their job to support us back!

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2011, 11:42:22 am »

The worst DRM I've encountered recently, are in single player games, that act like MMORPGS. I recently purchased Assasins creed 2 for the PC.

What - A - Nightmare.

For starters, you must create an account, and login to play like it's an MMO , but that's not all. You also have to have the disc inserted, and activate a cd-key, as well as update to the latest version to be allowed to login.

You know what, if they're going to do all that why NOT just go the extra mile? Just give me a USB-laser eye scanner, that will scan my retinas, as well as require me to fill out a contract with a photo-ID. Will that convince you I'm not a pirate!?!?

Ubisoft is getting really bad with this DRM stuff.

Not just Ubi, a lot of the AAA game companies are doing stuff like that.

And to Chris's point about it not just being games, I'll raise him one more and say it's not just software. This is less of an issue now, but even now, I refuse to buy music that has any sort of DRM at all. I buy quite a bit of music, usually at least 3-4 albums a month, sometimes more. Often I buy it online and back up my mp3s, but, if there is any DRM on it, I'll find it somewhere else, or buy the physical CD and rip it later.

Offline x4000

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2011, 11:44:19 am »
Yep, I rip all my music, but I don't resell the CDs as I view that as being unethical.  Preferably I just get it off of Amazon MP3 and then don't have to worry about it at all. :)

The software is Genesis 2 VFX Pro or similar.  But I wound up actually losing interest in that as I found something better (Particle Illusion) that also has sane developers.  So it's moot, but a couple of years ago I was pretty pissed.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2011, 11:48:56 am »
Yep, I rip all my music, but I don't resell the CDs as I view that as being unethical.  Preferably I just get it off of Amazon MP3 and then don't have to worry about it at all. :)


I dont sell them either, I keep them because I like to read coverslips. :) But, when I do buy online, I check emusic first, as they are usually cheaper, then I head to Amazon.

Offline kuresuti

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 08:22:05 am »
I think this gif is in order...


Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 10:38:57 am »
I think this gif is in order...
I... I... That's it.  The description of the whole of the piracy-drm thing.  All discussions of said should be immediately concluded with that gif and everyone can then go on to more important things ;)

The only really successful "anti-piracy" I've seen is WoW (or stuff like it) : it's not that the game is not pirateable, there are definitely private servers out there and you can run your own, etc... But the thing that the target audience wants (not succinctly describable, but basically the "real" persistent world, community, etc) is inherently only something you can get by going the "legitimate" route.  The "protection" (checking if you have paid time left) is on their servers, and if you aren't connecting to their servers you inherently aren't connecting to the same servers as "everyone else".  In theory a private server farm could grow big enough to rival the real ones, but not without Blizzard having a handy legal hammer to take them down, and honestly even if that didn't happen surely they'd have to charge money to recoup the costs anyway.

But for a game that runs on the customer's machine... that's not a winnable battle.  Fighting it only catches customers in the crossfire.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 10:43:05 am »
That is a really excellent gif indeed. :)
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Offline Cydonia

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2011, 02:23:51 pm »
This is already slightly off topic, but i wanted to mention:
I didn't think to get a response from the "founder of Arcen" games himself. That is better customer service then I have ever received anywhere else on anything.

Well, I think that's the surprise everyone on this Forum gets pretty soon ;)
You're right, I've also never seen support of this quality alsewhere. To me it looks lite Chris is caring for his games, and therefore his game's communities, like for his own child :P

I'd bet you quite a lot of money, I actually don't even own, that you won't find such devotion at something like EA!  :D
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 03:42:14 am »
On the subject of DRM: I'm a huge fan of the Mass Effect series and the first two I bought via Steam (which has its own problems but at least no draconian DRM that prevents me from doing jack squat) and I'm almost able to say that those are the two best games I've ever played. I am however considering not getting the third. Why? Origin. If ME3 requires Origin that's a definitive no for me. Origin takes everything bad and nothing good about digital distribution and just multiplies it by 100. That is a DRM I cannot support in any way. Just like Ubisoft and their online servers (see the AC2 above).

Speaking of DRM, anyone remember Starforce? That could literally destroy your computer. I had to reinstall my Windows once due to Starforce (X3 Reunion) and almost had to do it a second time after installing the game a second time. Thankfully I could repair it due to knowing which sys-files that were corrupted. Is it REALLY such a wonder that people pirate games like that? I mean, REALLY?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 07:17:31 pm »
On the subject of DRM: I'm a huge fan of the Mass Effect series and the first two I bought via Steam (which has its own problems but at least no draconian DRM that prevents me from doing jack squat) and I'm almost able to say that those are the two best games I've ever played. I am however considering not getting the third. Why? Origin.
I'm in almost exactly the same boat.  I loved ME and ME2 and am really excited about the idea of playing a 3rd game that wraps up the general story as well as shows the results of my specific choices in the previous 2 games.  They're not quite my absolute favorite but are in the top-20 or so best game experiences I've ever had.  But if it requires Origin?  I... I'm torn.  I probably won't get it.  I'd pay $60 for it on Steam so it's not that I'm objecting to DRM-per-se.  But... Origin?  Maybe its negative side has been somewhat exaggerated (I've seen the screenshots from ProcMon or whatever tool it was where Origin was actually opening every file on the harddisk or something like that, but I've not heard if that was or was not a hoax, etc), but it's really a major downer.

I hope that at some point the idea that "better customer service" => "better profits" gets through to the folks that call the shots at EA, Activision, etc.  I can see why it's a debatable point when laid out on an accountant's projections, but in practice this is not a world driven by numbers.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Do you HONESTLY think that pirating a game like this is hard?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 06:42:39 pm »
As far as intrusiveness goes steam is worse imo.. heck, every new game i get i have to delete the install.vdf file, steam is busy, and download speeds never full speed.

On origin i never had these issues yet (with bf3/bf3 beta ) In fact with Origin game download and install is truly "silent" - a concept steam can't even grasp.

Origin definitely does not open all files though, and is a much smaller impact on ram than steam...
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