Discussion: AI hitting you when you're down

[Martyn van Buren]

I thought this deserved a new thread; it's a cool idea and one that Keith is presumably open to (it being his), but it's buried like 17 pages deep in the "State of the Game" thread.

My current main thought on addressing this desire is to try out a new mechanic as an AI plot that gains strength based on human-player casualties, and tries to hit you while you're weak.  Of course, with that econ you don't spend much time weak, if any

Sounds quite cool to me, and evidently some other people.  Question, though: are you thinking this is going to be a meter that fills up a little with every casualty and then when it fills up out pops an exo/something similar?  Or is it more something along the lines of the AI saying to itself, "Well, if the humans just lost that many ships, they're probably pretty weak right now, let's take what I have and hit them hard"?

[zoutzakje]

I hope the first one (or both), though I would like to see something more interesting happening than just another exo. We've got the ability to enable plenty of exo's as it is already.

[Martyn van Buren]

I'm more interested in the second, personally --- I'd rather something that feels like a bit more AI cleverness than another mechanic I want to learn to manipulate.

[TechSY730]

Seems similar to that "short term AI progress"/"human threat meter" of another recent thread, except scaled with recent human losses rather than recently seen human firepower on AI planets.

Both ideas seem intruiging.

[Coppermantis]

I support this idea. It makes sense for the AI to try and push its advantage. I don't think it would be a meter that fills, but rather something like the second one. If the player has lost enough ships in a short time, send in a big force to try and deal a coup de grace. Maybe launch a low-ish-timer exo/CPA or send in the special forces. The timer for standard CPAs are too large for this, I think, but it shouldn't be too short otherwise the human won't stand a chance having just lost so many ships.

[TechSY730]

Re-posting my questions from the original thread:

For the proposed "AI attacks after human casualties" plot, would that be scaled with total casualties over the whole game, or if the AI detects a sudden burst of casualties (aka, scaled with the casualties over the past N minutes). Also, where would it get the ships for its counter attacks? Freeing excess defenders? And finally, what would the behavior of those ships be? Threat fleet? Normal threat?

[Draco18s]

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

[TechSY730]

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

Agreed.
Freeing some stuff from special forces and/or excess defenders in "unimportant" locations seems like the best source. The AI already has enough ways to get new ships.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Seems similar to that "short term AI progress"/"human threat meter" of another recent thread, except scaled with recent human losses rather than recently seen human firepower on AI planets.

Both ideas seem intruiging.

Unlike that idea, I think this shouldn't be a meter of some kind. The AI can get mad about you having firepower gradually, but this seems more like a spontaneous reaction to "Man we just saw like 400 human-flavored explosions, lets go for the finishing blow!"
I should probably also mantis that human threat-o-meter at some point, but I'm usually too lazy to actually do that. =/

[TechSY730]

Seems similar to that "short term AI progress"/"human threat meter" of another recent thread, except scaled with recent human losses rather than recently seen human firepower on AI planets.

Both ideas seem intruiging.

Unlike that idea, I think this shouldn't be a meter of some kind. The AI can get mad about you having firepower gradually, but this seems more like a spontaneous reaction to "Man we just saw like 400 human-flavored explosions, lets go for the finishing blow!"
I should probably also mantis that human threat-o-meter at some point, but I'm usually too lazy to actually do that. =/

That would still be a meter (over recent human casualties), but one with a much, much faster "decay", such that would wouldn't really see it build up over multiple attacks or anything like that.

Technically, if either the conditions or the response are scaled somehow based on game state data and not just a boolean or a constant over the game (like faction intensities), then a "meter" (visible or not) is technically involved somehow, even if it is reset at the end of each "encounter".

[Kahuna]

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

That would mean every time you lose your fleet you get ~2000 ship "wave".

[zoutzakje]

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

That would mean every time you lose your fleet you get ~2000 ship "wave".

which a decent turretball should still be able to handle without fleet support. I don't think an exo would be too much free stuff for the AI, I'd just like to see something more interesting than an exo. Exo's are fun, but we can already get 4 different ones in a game ever since the Botnet became his own minor faction.

[TechSY730]

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

That would mean every time you lose your fleet you get ~2000 ship "wave".

It doesn't have to be the entire special forces, perhaps only some of them.

[Draco18s]

That would mean every time you lose your fleet you get ~2000 ship "wave".

As opposed to a 2000 ship exo wave leaving the special forces still blobbed up outside your whipping boy?

It doesn't have to be the entire special forces, perhaps only some of them.

Also that.

[KDR_11k]

I'm not sure having the AI get ships for your losses is right, that's getting awfully close to reclamation. It should probably be based on how much you send out or maybe even your total mobile military. You just get a better chance of beating the counterattack if you still have that mobile military.

I would hope that it calls in the Special Forces Strike Force, honestly.  An exo would be too much "free" stuff for the AI IMO.

That would mean every time you lose your fleet you get ~2000 ship "wave".

Yes. Don't lose your fleet.

On the upside most of the special forces rank as cannon fodder anyway.