Deflector Drones

[keith.lamothe]

These haven't won any polls, but those aren't the only times we change anything   The polls do have various bias problems and such: I don't really have the tools to do a really scientifically-valid sampling, and I don't even use all the tools I have like hiding current vote totals to people who have not yet voted, etc.  I think they're fine but not the beginning and end of all changes.  Anyway... 

The deflector is a particular annoyance to some folks, so here's a proposal that was recently advanced for these:

Increase cap from 196 to 272
Increase health from 26.600 to 40.000 (cap health from 5.213.600 to 10.880.000)
Quadruple or triple the AoE of the laser damage reduction buff.
Increase movement speed from 72 to 84.

Are there any objections to this?

[Winge]

I definitely think Deflector Drones could use a buff.  I'm unsure about the cap, but the other changes (HP, speed, and increased laser damage reduction range) sound excellent.

[Vyndicu]

I am not sure about those changes as it might make the AI's version of deflector drone bit more stronger and last longer against a Fallen Spire Fleet. Actually I supposed the same could be said of a spireling AI.

As long the ripple side-effect are kept to a minimum I suppose I see no harm to those changes.

[keith.lamothe]

I am not sure about those changes as it might make the AI's version of deflector drone bit more stronger and last longer against a Fallen Spire Fleet. Actually I supposed the same could be said of a spireling AI.

Bear in mind that the deflector drone's laser-damage-reducing thing only applies to actual laser units.  So it would impact the FS modules that actually have "laser" in the name, but it does not impact "beam" weapons like the FS main guns or the heavy-beam modules.  So these really wouldn't impact the FS ships as their laser modules are not their main source of DPS.

Of course, making laser-reduction apply to beam damage certainly would be one way to make that particular unit-special-ability more significant.

[Vyndicu]

Interesting I thought it did affect beam guess not.

[Kahuna]

These haven't won any polls, but those aren't the only times we change anything   The polls do have various bias problems and such: I don't really have the tools to do a really scientifically-valid sampling, and I don't even use all the tools I have like hiding current vote totals to people who have not yet voted, etc.  I think they're fine but not the beginning and end of all changes.  Anyway... 

The deflector is a particular annoyance to some folks, so here's a proposal that was recently advanced for these:

Increase cap from 196 to 272
Increase health from 26.600 to 40.000 (cap health from 5.213.600 to 10.880.000)
Quadruple or triple the AoE of the laser damage reduction buff.
Increase movement speed from 72 to 84.

Are there any objections to this?

You don't have to buff Deflector Drones just because of me.. but if you want to do it anyway.. cool! Much appreciated.
Anyway.. lets compare Deflector Drones to other swarmers:
Infiltrators
Cap: 160
Cap health: 14.880.000
Cap dps: 138.666
Cap dps with bonus: 554.666

Laser Gatlings
Cap: 272
Cap health: 10.716.800
Cap dps: 163.200
Cap dps with bonus: 293.760

Autocannons
Cap: 196
Cap health: 10.701.600
Cap dps: 109.760
Cap dps with bonus: 351.232

Deflector Drones
Cap: 196
Cap health: 5.213.600
Cap dps: 109.760
Cap dps with bonus: 263.424

Deflector Drones' cap health is about HALF compared to other swarmers.. and imo swarmers in general could use a small buff. Again because swarmers' firepower is reduced faster than low ship cap ships'. Low cap ships' firepower goes down slowly but in big chunks but swarmers' firepower goes down non stop. Missile Frigates 1 shot all swarmers except Infiltrators.

Increasing Deflector Drones' ship cap would allow them to make better use of the laser damage reduction buff because they would be spread in a bigger area. This would also increase their extremely low health and semi-low dps.
Buffing their health would allow them to actually do something in combat.
Increasing the AoE of the buff could actually make it noticeable and useful.

Deflector Drones after buff
Cap: 272
Cap health: 10.880.000
Cap dps: 152.320
Cap dps with bonus: 365.568 | This new DPS does seem a bit high. This might be overpowered especially when combined with their long range and new movement speed.
The AoE of the Laser Damage Reduction buff Tripled | Quadrupled combined with the cap increase might be too much.. ?
Movement speed buffed to 84 | Now they would be as fast as Fighters. They could reposition themselves faster and make better use of their laser damage reduction buff. But would this combined with the long range make them too powerful?

[chemical_art]

Perhaps the deflectors could have the 1.2 multiplier instead of the 2.2 one?

[Toranth]

These haven't won any polls, but those aren't the only times we change anything   The polls do have various bias problems and such: I don't really have the tools to do a really scientifically-valid sampling, and I don't even use all the tools I have like hiding current vote totals to people who have not yet voted, etc.  I think they're fine but not the beginning and end of all changes.  Anyway... 

The deflector is a particular annoyance to some folks, so here's a proposal that was recently advanced for these:

Increase cap from 196 to 272
Increase health from 26.600 to 40.000 (cap health from 5.213.600 to 10.880.000)
Quadruple or triple the AoE of the laser damage reduction buff.
Increase movement speed from 72 to 84.

Are there any objections to this?

Objections?  Not here.  I would suggest that this doesn't begin to help with the real problem, though.

Laser attack type is just too uncommon.  I tallied which ships have Laser, and it's not pretty.
I counted Fleetships, Starships, Guardians, and Guardposts.  I did not count modules, turrets, Golems, Spirecraft, or 'uniques' (like Radar Jammer, Spire Capital ships, etc).
Fleetships:
Spire Gravity Drain
Laser Gatling
Raider
Space Plane
Youngling Scapegoat
Raptor
Shieldbearer
Tackle Drone Launcher

Starships:
Raid SS

Guardians:
Laser Guardian
EMP Guardian

Guardposts:
Laser Guardpost

That 8 fleetships, 1 Starship, 2 Guardians, and 1 Guardpost that use the Laser ammo type.
There are 20 total ammo types in use (not counting unqiues like Ion Beams from Ion Cannons).

There are over 100 ship types.
We're looking at the Deflector being usable at all in something like 10% of all possible cases, and of those things that use Laser, 4 are jokes - The EMP Guardian, Shieldbearer, TDL, Scapegoat, while 3 more are swarmers - the Laser Gatling, Space Plane, and Raider.

In other words, I don't see why anyone would really care about the presence or absence of Deflector Drones in any but specialized circumstances.  Buffing their stats makes them better general purpose units, but their specialty, their raison d'être, is still unbalanced.


Note:  The AI War ReferenceWindowBalanceStatisticsExport spreadsheet does NOT list ammo type with ships.  Could this get added?

[keith.lamothe]

@Toranth: Well, would having it affect beams (photon lances, heavy beam cannons, zenith beams) too be sufficient without being too strong?

[Kahuna]

@Toranth: Well, would having it affect beams (photon lances, heavy beam cannons, zenith beams) too be sufficient without being too strong?

It could halve the damage instead of making it 1/4. That might make it balanced.

[Toranth]

@Toranth: Well, would having it affect beams (photon lances, heavy beam cannons, zenith beams) too be sufficient without being too strong?

Beam Weapons includes the Wrath Lance, right?  That'd definately move the Deflector into a 'This is useful' category.  Would it be too strong?  I dunno.  It'd still be quite specialized, but the ability to cut Spire Starship and Wrath Lance damage would actually matter.

[keith.lamothe]

@Toranth: Well, would having it affect beams (photon lances, heavy beam cannons, zenith beams) too be sufficient without being too strong?

Beam Weapons includes the Wrath Lance, right?  That'd definately move the Deflector into a 'This is useful' category.  Would it be too strong?  I dunno.  It'd still be quite specialized, but the ability to cut Spire Starship and Wrath Lance damage would actually matter.

I thought of the Wrath Lance too, but honestly would even cutting down what it does to you by 3/4 actually have a practical effect?  I think it'd mostly just vaporize you anyway.

But yes, it would make enemy photon lances much easier to endure.

[Diazo]

Note:  The AI War ReferenceWindowBalanceStatisticsExport spreadsheet does NOT list ammo type with ships.  Could this get added?

ShipDataFull.xls does have the ammo type. (F3, then Ctrl-Shift-F8, it will close the game on you though.)

D.

[Cinth]

You could consider something other than beams, like energy wave or minor electric.

I don't think we should be able to trivialize "heavy" type beams

[Hearteater]

Let their Deflection work against: Lasers, Beam Weapons and Ion Beam.  For Ion Beams, it should protect anything nearby from Ion Cannon's instant-kill (maybe it could work only 75% of the time, or simply just make it globally 1 out of 4 instant-kills gets through).