Dealing with mines

[bonesbro]

It's been a long time since I played.  I started a new game, patched it up to the latest one (which buffed mines, apparently) and got very frustrated at the AI mines.  Every time I bring a fleet into a system half of it would explode due to minefields.  Then I tried to pull the fleet out of the system to go stop a wave and I lost half the remaining ships to mines on the way back out.  I ended up just alt+f4ing the game out of frustration of having to wait another 10 minutes to rebuild a fleet.

(I read the new hacking rules too, and my interpretation was basically that unless you're really experienced at the game, trying it would just be the apocalypse, and isn't it newer players who needed the knowledge boost anyway?)

[Minotaar]

Hi and welcome to the forums!
Checking with maybe a scout starship to see if there are mines on the other side, then bringing your fleet in transports right past them should do the trick.
As for the knowledge hacking, I haven't seen what the first hack looks like with the new rules, but you at least should be able to get one off without too much trouble.
If you're playing at a normal difficulty, you usually don't have to do it more than once anyway. It's a bigger concern for the 9-10 diff folks this way though 
Hope that helps 

[Wanderer]

Minefields: My 9.8 game is currently against a mine enthusiast and they are making a difference.  It's funny when you watch 10+ gatlings have a problem taking them out when you scout them with your scout starships.

That's the big thing, use your scout starships.  You get Level 1s for free and they can be made 'brave' now, via the controls menu.  That means they act like military instead of scouts, so they're easy to click-drag select and won't run on exit.  Use them for quickie scouts on wormholes (both sides) and you should be golden.

K-Hacks: They're more intense, yes, but they shouldn't get outrageous on you.  It's only if you start taking it past two K-Raids that things start to get apocolyptic.  Really, just try it and see.  You can hold out with basic MK I fleet on the first one and a reasonable MK II fleet for the second one as long as you've got some gravs on your border worlds for escaping Raid Starships.

Go for 3+ and you're in for it.  Really, the best hacking option right now (or at least, the funnest) is the ARS hacks.  Most games shouldn't need to k-Raid unless you're really in the deep or you're trying to abuse low AIP games.

[Shrugging Khan]

Just throw cheap...eeehm...COURAGEOUS! units at the mines until they explode no more.

[PokerChen]

Hmmm... in the standard player arsenal, Transports, Tachyon Drones, Decloakers, Neinzul Enclave Starships and Scout Starships are immune to mines. Have you checked whether suiciding a Tachyon Drone is worthwhile? They're under Decloakers on the build menu, IIRC, are much cheaper than a scout starship, and can be built on demand (in supply) just outside the wormhole. In fact, it seems like they were meant to be the original wine sweepers.

As for taking them out, it's almost always faster to take your fleet through a Transport and take out the Command Station. One can always come back to deal with the guard posts separately.  On the hull aspect, they're Refractives and take more damage from Missile Frigates.

If you don't like jetting your entire fleet around in transports, you can try to set up a sweeper team using a decloaker, a cap of Missile frigate-Is, and a transport (a few is better, using one as a decoy). Put them all into one control group, and ask the Missile Frigates to target Mines preferentially. Or just switch to Neinzuls.

[Shrugging Khan]

wine sweeper

Somebody called? 

[TechSY730]

Yea, some sort of disposable, tachyon emitting thing to find them first thing, send in some disposable ships or ships that can survive mines or and get a bonus against them to take them out.

If you need to neuter the planet instead of outright taking it out, you may want to consider using cleanup drones to take out any already spent mines. If you did manage to "completely detonate" a mine, cleanup drones will probably be the fastest way to take it out.

[Diazo]

Marking the thread to add the anti-mine strategies to the wiki.

D.

[bonesbro]

Thanks for the replies folks.

It's particularly frustrating at the very start of the game, when rebuilding "a cap of missile frigates" is lot of waiting.  One of the AIs is a mine enthusiast so I guess I have to repeat this at half the planets in the game?  I don't understand what the scout starship is going to do to help - it will let me see the mines but my ships still fly into them and explode when they exit the wormholes.  There's no "stop out of range and shoot them" at a wormhole   They're area mines btw.

[Hearteater]

If nothing else, send in Fighters.  They are the cheapest to replace.  For area mines, send them in small groups so you are wasting the mines' AOE damage.  Ideally send one at a time, but if there are other enemy ships there you have no choice but to send a small group.

Another option, as other mentioned, is using Transports to skip over the mines.  First find the mines with a Scout Starship* or Tachyon Drone.  Then assault the wormhole with your ships in Transports and move just past the mines before unloading.  You should be able to get the wormhole cleared fairly quickly this way.

* If there is still a Tachyon Guardian, use a Tachyon Drone which will hopfully reveal all the mines you need to worry about for a Transport assault.

[Nodor]

As a note, mine enthusiasts also like to put lots of mines around command stations.

[TechSY730]

I think the overall point is that mines are supposed to be a pain to deal with, something that was failing to happen before due to how underpowered mines were.
Now that they are functioning well, the mine enthusiast is beginning to show its "teeth".

Wouldn't mind not allowing EMP mines or Area mines on Mk. I and Mk. II AI worlds, as these are basically high mark mines. (Though I could concede and say area mines on Mk. II worlds is fine)
On Mk. III and up, well, you should expect things to be hairy.

[PokerChen]

wine sweeper

Somebody called? 

Eh. Freudian slip - the tedium makes you wanna drink, unlike the windows game.

Thanks for the replies folks.

It's particularly frustrating at the very start of the game, when rebuilding "a cap of missile frigates" is lot of waiting.  One of the AIs is a mine enthusiast so I guess I have to repeat this at half the planets in the game?  I don't understand what the scout starship is going to do to help - it will let me see the mines but my ships still fly into them and explode when they exit the wormholes.  There's no "stop out of range and shoot them" at a wormhole   They're area mines btw.

Well, a mine enthusiast now forces the player to use transports, much like how stealth masters already force the use of tachyon beam emitters and speed racers/extreme raiders force the setting of grav turret networks. The Mines' speed-bump factor in this version can potentially justify lifting the AI from "Easier Tier" to "Moderate Tier".

What I wonder is, has anyone tried a Starship-based fleet against Mines yet? I'd imagine that the sturdier ones can tank these mines fairly well.