Author Topic: Dealing with Astro Trains?  (Read 2436 times)

Offline bssybeep

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Dealing with Astro Trains?
« on: October 27, 2009, 01:56:36 am »
I just started a new game after upgrading to 2.0.

First thing new I notice are those irritating Astro Trains Mark II's that the AI is flooding my territories with.  The pop-up says to destroy the Astro Train Stations or build Counter-Negative Energy Turrets to deal with them.  I'm destroying the Train Stations but still seem to be flooded by them.  My main problem is the game does not list the Counter-Negative Energy Turrets as buildable.  What does it take to be able to build those Counter-Negative Energy Turrets?

Thanks

Offline Revenantus

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 02:06:28 am »
Hey bsspbeep,

Counter negative energy turrets must be unlocked using knowledge before they can be constructed. Select a science lab and research the unit, you should then be able to place them. Counter negative energy turrets will protect all units under their protection from the astrotrain's weapons. Placing them at wormholes to protect your other defenses is a common tactic.

Astrotrains route between all the astrotrain stations on the map. Hopefully, destroying the stations near to you will cause the trains to take routes other than those that will take them through your planets. Stopping them from passing through your systems entirely can be difficult on some maps, you'll just have to keep hunting down and destroying those stations.

Good luck!

Offline bssybeep

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 02:16:08 am »
Thanks for the quick reply. 

hmmm, I'm looking at the turrets I can research and I'm not seeing it.  Maybe I need to research a prereq turret to access this turret?

Offline Revenantus

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 02:18:49 am »
Thanks for the quick reply.  

hmmm, I'm looking at the turrets I can research and I'm not seeing it.  Maybe I need to research a prereq turret to access this turret?

Silly me. Negative-Energy has been renamed to Dark Matter in the recent releases. The Astrotrain tooltip must be out of date, I'll flag it for update.

You're after the Counter-Dark-Matter Turret.

Offline bssybeep

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 02:44:22 am »
Thanks for the quick reply.  

hmmm, I'm looking at the turrets I can research and I'm not seeing it.  Maybe I need to research a prereq turret to access this turret?

Silly me. Negative-Energy has been renamed to Dark Matter in the recent releases. The Astrotrain tooltip must be out of date, I'll flag it for update.

You're after the Counter-Dark-Matter Turret.

heh, thxs

Offline Kjara

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 11:42:26 am »
If they really bug you, you can always turn them off too :).

Offline x4000

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 12:03:27 pm »
I have fixed that outdated text for the next prerelease -- great catch!
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Offline OpT1mUs

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 12:27:23 pm »
A bit offtopic question:

What's the point of astro trains? What are they supposed to  be (analogy with some SF show/book/film etc)?

Offline x4000

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 01:28:21 pm »
A bit offtopic question:

What's the point of astro trains? What are they supposed to  be (analogy with some SF show/book/film etc)?

Well, I don't have a particular inspiration from an outside reference like that for them -- though obviously the Transformers character by the same name was something of an inspiration for the name.  Thematically, the idea is that these are really heavily armored couriers, which have some weapons and thus damage stuff along their path.  Thematically speaking, that's about it: it fits with the whole "the AI is mostly just doing it's own thing, which is a bit unfathomable to the humans, and it deals with you when it notices you" aspect (more on that here).

There were a number of "points" to them, in more practical gameplay/ game design terms, though:

1. They provide another layer of complexity to the AI's activities.  During alpha testing, one thing that I was really struggling with was making the galaxy feel active enough, that there was stuff going on without it being too threatening constantly to the human players, and astro trains were one way I tried to combat that.

2. They also cause disruptions to some wormholes so that it is harder to mine/turret those wormholes (thus providing more variety between wormholes, and a bit more complexity to wormhole defenses -- plus another thing to potentially raid into hostile enemy territory to kill).

That's mainly it.  They provide some semi-predictable attrition along certain paths, and thus help to give a certain shaping and feel to the terrain.  They're less vital now than they once were, and some players really hate them, but a number of reviewers have also commented on really liking them.

Is that what you were looking for, explanation-wise?
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Offline Velox

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 02:05:12 pm »

     Don't short-change their wickedness - they play havoc with scouting too!  In some senses, they *are* a terrain feature.  Kind of like those "severe tire damage" things. 

     I love to hate astro trains.

Offline x4000

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 02:11:38 pm »

     Don't short-change their wickedness - they play havoc with scouting too!  In some senses, they *are* a terrain feature.  Kind of like those "severe tire damage" things. 

     I love to hate astro trains.


Oh, yeah!  How'd I forget that one, haha.  Yeah, that introduces some degree of uncertainty into the scouting of various paths.  You might send 10 scouts one time, and they don't get anywhere significant because of an astro train.  Then you send another 10, and they make it several hops away.  That sort of unpredictability of interlocking AI systems adds a lot, I think -- it's the sort of thing where you can choose to "fire and forget," or you can choose to micromanage if that really floats your boat.
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Offline laxrulz777

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 02:12:29 pm »

     Don't short-change their wickedness - they play havoc with scouting too!  In some senses, they *are* a terrain feature.  Kind of like those "severe tire damage" things. 

     I love to hate astro trains.


Agreed 100%... They also force you to actually THINK about your placement inside the system...

Offline x4000

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 02:28:06 pm »
They also force you to actually THINK about your placement inside the system...

Oh, yeah -- that was another goal.  I keep forgetting all the different facets of those, apparently!
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Offline OpT1mUs

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 02:50:10 pm »
A bit offtopic question:

What's the point of astro trains? What are they supposed to  be (analogy with some SF show/book/film etc)?

Well, I don't have a particular inspiration from an outside reference like that for them -- though obviously the Transformers character by the same name was something of an inspiration for the name.  Thematically, the idea is that these are really heavily armored couriers, which have some weapons and thus damage stuff along their path.  Thematically speaking, that's about it: it fits with the whole "the AI is mostly just doing it's own thing, which is a bit unfathomable to the humans, and it deals with you when it notices you" aspect (more on that here).

There were a number of "points" to them, in more practical gameplay/ game design terms, though:

1. They provide another layer of complexity to the AI's activities.  During alpha testing, one thing that I was really struggling with was making the galaxy feel active enough, that there was stuff going on without it being too threatening constantly to the human players, and astro trains were one way I tried to combat that.

2. They also cause disruptions to some wormholes so that it is harder to mine/turret those wormholes (thus providing more variety between wormholes, and a bit more complexity to wormhole defenses -- plus another thing to potentially raid into hostile enemy territory to kill).

That's mainly it.  They provide some semi-predictable attrition along certain paths, and thus help to give a certain shaping and feel to the terrain.  They're less vital now than they once were, and some players really hate them, but a number of reviewers have also commented on really liking them.

Is that what you were looking for, explanation-wise?

Yup, thanks , and to all the others that answered  :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Dealing with Astro Trains?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 02:55:23 pm »
Great! :)
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