Current balance of starships in exo waves?

[ColdPrototype]

How do people feel about the current balance of starships in (fallen spire) exo waves? I've found that two or three dozen of the new starships, many of which will be mark V (including the flagship with its huge attack boost), are incredibly effective at destroying fleets, even those with many fallen spire starships. Is this just me being out of practice, or is it trouble other people are experiencing?

[keith.lamothe]

Revenge of the Starships?

[Diazo]

I have not hit the big exo-waves yet in my current game, but I have been pondering if starships need a small cost boost for exo-waves as they are now more potent then before.

Yes, their DPS did go down as their health went up, but the high mark Zenith and Spire have so much health that I'm pretty sure that the longer time they last due to that increased health means they do more damage before dying then they did before.

However, I have not hit the big exo-waves yet, this may just be a perception issue where Starships are not any stronger objectively, they may be doing less damage then they did before, just their increased health causes them to last so long that it looks like they are doing more.

D.

edit: Actually, Starships obey the targetting logic the same as the lead ship of the exo-wave right? That means that their higher health does make them more dangerous. Even if their absolute damage done before dying is less, their health means they are more likely to survive long enough to reach their target and so deal more damage to their target then the old version which did more absolute damage, but did that damage to your defenses and died before it got in range of its target.

[LordSloth]

All I'm saying is, once I find the time, I'm playing against Starfleet Commander and Mad Bomber.

[Hearteater]

And they get full munitions boosts now, so that can up their DPS quite a bit.  By about 43% if there is a Mark III Flagship boosting them compared to before the patch, and by almost 93% if there is a Mark V Munitions Booster.

[TechSY730]

I believe Keith did up the "exo-cost" of the starships when their rebalance happened.
Of course, there is no telling whether the increase was too little, too much, or about right given how recent these patches were. We'll probably need more playtesting to give a good report.

[keith.lamothe]

edit: Actually, Starships obey the targetting logic the same as the lead ship of the exo-wave right?

I'm not sure I understand.  They will focus-fire the actual goal of the exo, yes.  But if that's out of range they won't always shoot at the same thing as the lead ship (that would generally be pretty sub-optimal).

[Diazo]

edit: Actually, Starships obey the targetting logic the same as the lead ship of the exo-wave right?

I'm not sure I understand.  They will focus-fire the actual goal of the exo, yes.  But if that's out of range they won't always shoot at the same thing as the lead ship (that would generally be pretty sub-optimal).

Err, yes, that's what I mean. Effectively all ships in an exo (so the starships as well) have a 'right-click' order on the exo's target is what I was asking. It looks like the answer is yes.

Which validates my point about the health increase making them more dangerous to their target even though their total damage done before dying is probably less. Because said health lets them survive long enough to breach your defensive line and get in range of their targeted high-value structure they are a bigger threat then the older, higher DPS starships were that would die before breaching your defensive line because of their lower health.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

It looks like the answer is yes.

Correct.  They enter "terrier" mode once they get within biting range.

Which validates my point about the health increase making them more dangerous to their target even though their total damage done before dying is probably less.

There's certainly both a decrease (dps went down) and an increase (chance of getting to target went up).  Which of those is the larger factor is more complex, but I believe you may have a point.

Brb, need to make a table of point costs...

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, massive table incoming, my apologies for the not-really-rounded numbers in some places.

FYI, it turns out that there are exactly 306 types eligible for exos, though generally not all will be eligible in a specific game unless you're playing against Everything AIs.


Since the thing is so long, I'll explain the columns here:

ObjectType - internal name, some may not make sense to you due to renames, etc.

ShortName - the string it shows in the game for that unit when it wants a short one (i.e. in the selection-description box in the lower-right corner)

EventAttackCost - the number of exo budget points the AI pays to get this ship in an exo

RelativeStrength - a more recently added metric for comparing individual ships for the purpose of paying costs.  This is used in tons of things now like purchasing for Special Forces, Strategic Reserve, Reinforcements, etc.  I'm thinking of changing exos over to using this, but obviously these values would need to be vetted and the exo budget amounts would have to be re-scaled.

IndividualHealth - the health of an individual unit of that type (I got this table from the reference export, so this is actually cap-health divided by cap)

IndividualMaxDPS - the best-case DPS of an individual unit of that type, including base DPS, bonuses, aoe (with some sane ceiling of targets hit for unlimited-target aoe, if there is any of that in here), etc. (I got this table from the reference export, so this is actually cap-max-dps divided by cap)


And my purpose for posting this: I'm morbidly curious to know what looks out of whack   The whole exo budget system was cooked up during development of LotS and hasn't really ever been re-balanced per-se.  With the exception of tuning the tier (and thus cost) of H/Ks and a few things like that basically this has been "balanced" by rebalancing other numbers _around_ it.


Behold, the sausage factory.

ObjectType	ShortName	EventAttackCost	RelativeStrength	IndividualHealth	IndividualMaxDPS
LazerGatling	Laser Gat I	1	0.3528	19700	539.9411764706
AutocannonMinipod	Autocannon I	2	0.4897	27300	895.9846938776
LazerGatlingII	Laser Gat II	2	0.7056	39400	1079.8823529412
MicroFighter	MicroFighter I	2	0.6665	50000	2360
Raider	Raider I	2	0.4897	26000	1000
AntiArmorShip	Anti-Armor I	3	0.4897	14000	911.9617346939
AutocannonMinipodII	Autocannon II	3	0.9795	54500	1791.9719387755
DeflectorDrone	Deflector I	3	0.4897	13300	671.9719387755
Fighter	Fighter I	3	1	82500	3060
LazerGatlingIII	Laser Gat III	3	1.0583	59000	1619.8235294118
MicroFighterII	MicroFighter II	3	1.333	100000	4720
ZenithMirror	Mirror I	3	1	780000	340
NeinzulScapegoat	N-Scape I	3	2	168000	4200
ZenithParalyzer	Paralyzer I	3	1	25500	158.75
RaiderII	Raider II	3	0.9795	52000	2000
AntiArmorShipII	Anti-Armor II	4	0.9795	28000	1823.9234693878
ArmorShip	Armor I	4	1.0908	175000	2120
AutocannonMinipodIII	Autocannon III	4	1.4692	81500	2687.9566326531
BulletproofFighter	Bulletproof I	4	1.0908	112000	4050
ZenithChameleon	Chameleon I	4	1	103000	1619.9322916667
DeflectorDroneII	Deflector II	4	0.9795	26500	1343.943877551
FighterII	Fighter II	4	2	165000	6120
ImpulseReactionEmitter	Impulse Emitter I	4	1	78000	4590
LazerGatlingIV	Laser Gat IV	4	1.4111	78500	2159.7647058824
MicroFighterIII	MicroFighter III	4	1.9995	150000	7080
ZenithMirrorII	Mirror II	4	2	1570000	680
MissileShip	Missile Frigate I	4	1	78000	2940
NeinzulScapegoatII	N-Scape II	4	2	84000	2100
ZenithParalyzerII	Paralyzer II	4	2	51000	317.5
Parasite	Parasite I	4	2	102000	1020
ZenithPolarizer	Polarizer I	4	1	78000	4900
RaiderIII	Raider III	4	1.4692	78000	3000
Spider	Spider I	4	1	51000	2448
AntiArmorShipIII	Anti-Armor III	6	1.4692	42000	2735.8877551021
ArmorShipII	Armor II	6	2.1816	350000	4240
AutocannonMinipodIV	Autocannon IV	6	1.959	109000	3583.943877551
Bomber	Bomber I	6	1	78000	2440
BulletproofFighterII	Bulletproof II	6	2.1816	224000	8100
ZenithChameleonII	Chameleon II	6	2	207000	3239.8645833333
DeflectorDroneIII	Deflector III	6	1.4692	39900	2015.9158163265
FighterIII	Fighter III	6	3	248000	9150
ImpulseReactionEmitterII	Impulse Emitter II	6	2	157000	9150
CoreDrone	Laser Gat V	6	1.7639	98000	2699.705882353
MicroFighterIV	MicroFighter IV	6	2.666	200000	9400
ZenithMirrorIII	Mirror III	6	3	2350000	1020
MissileShipII	Missile Frigate II	6	2	157000	5880
MLRS	MLRS I	6	1.2629	100000	2186.6644736842
NeinzulScapegoatIII	N-Scape III	6	1.9995	56000	1400
ZenithParalyzerIII	Paralyzer III	6	3	77000	475
ParasiteII	Parasite II	6	4	205000	2040
ZenithPolarizerII	Polarizer II	6	2	157000	9800
RaiderIV	Raider IV	6	1.959	105000	4000
SpiderII	Spider II	6	2	102000	4896
SpaceTank	Tank I	6	1	52000	3120
AntiArmorShipIV	Anti-Armor IV	8	1.959	56000	3647.8494897959
ArmorShipIII	Armor III	8	3.2725	520000	6373.3295454546
SpireArmorRotter	Armor Rotter I	8	2	164000	3660
CoreAutocannonMinipod	Autocannon V	8	2.4487	136000	4479.931122449
BomberII	Bomber II	8	2	157000	4890
BulletproofFighterIII	Bulletproof III	8	3.2725	335000	12150
ZenithChameleonIII	Chameleon III	8	3	310000	4879.796875
DeflectorDroneIV	Deflector IV	8	1.959	53000	2687.8903061225
FighterIV	Fighter IV	8	4	330000	12150
SpireGravityDrain	Gravity Drain I	8	2	107000	2075
SpireGravityRipper	Gravity Ripper I	8	2	214000	2040
ImpulseReactionEmitterIII	Impulse Emitter III	8	3	235000	13650
CoreMicroFighter	MicroFighter V	8	3.3325	250000	11800
ZenithMirrorIV	Mirror IV	8	4	3140000	1360
Cruiser	Missile Frigate III	8	3	235000	8760
MLRSII	MLRS II	8	2.5259	200000	4373.3289473684
NeinzulScapegoatIV	N-Scape IV	8	2	42000	1050
ZenithParalyzerIV	Paralyzer IV	8	4	102000	637.5
ParasiteIII	Parasite III	8	6	308000	3050
ZenithPolarizerIII	Polarizer III	8	3	235000	14700
CoreRaider	Raider V	8	2.4487	130000	5000
SpiderIII	Spider III	8	3	154000	7320
SpaceTankII	Tank II	8	2	104000	6200
CoreAntiArmorShip	Anti-Armor V	16	2.4487	70000	4559.8137755102
ArmorShipIV	Armor IV	16	4.3633	700000	8506.6647727273
SpireArmorRotterII	Armor Rotter II	16	4	328000	7350
ZenithBombardment	Bombard I	16	6	192000	6066.6666666667
BomberIII	Bomber III	16	3	235000	7300
BulletproofFighterIV	Bulletproof IV	16	4.3633	445000	16200
ZenithChameleonIV	Chameleon IV	16	4	414000	6519.734375
CoreDeflectorDrone	Deflector V	16	2.4487	66000	3359.862244898
CoreFighter	Fighter V	16	5	414000	15300
SpireGravityDrainII	Gravity Drain II	16	4	214000	4175
SpireGravityRipperII	Gravity Ripper II	16	4	425000	4050
ImpulseReactionEmitterIV	Impulse Emitter IV	16	4	314000	18300
CoreZenithMirror	Mirror V	16	5	3900000	1700
CruiserIV	Missile Frigate IV	16	4	314000	11760
MLRSIII	MLRS III	16	3.7888	300000	6533.3289473684
CoreNeinzulScapegoat	N-Scape V	16	1.9995	33600	840
CoreZenithParalyzer	Paralyzer V	16	5	128000	797.5
ParasiteIV	Parasite IV	16	8	410000	4050
ZenithPolarizerIV	Polarizer IV	16	4	314000	19500
Saboteur	Sabo I	16	2.3999	150000	2000
Sniper	Sniper I	16	4.7998	127000	9733.325
SpiderIV	Spider IV	16	4	205000	9720
SpaceTankIII	Tank III	16	3	155000	9333.328125
SpireArmorRotterIII	Armor Rotter III	24	6	490000	10950
CoreArmorShip	Armor V	24	5.4541	870000	10640
ZenithBombardmentII	Bombard II	24	12	385000	12133.3333333333
BomberIV	Bomber IV	24	4	314000	9750
CoreBulletproofFighter	Bulletproof V	24	5.4541	560000	20100
CoreZenithChameleon	Chameleon V	24	5	515000	8159.6666666667
SpireGravityDrainIII	Gravity Drain III	24	6	320000	6250
SpireGravityRipperIII	Gravity Ripper III	24	6	640000	6100
CoreImpulseReactionEmitter	Impulse Emitter V	24	5	390000	22800
CoreBattleCruiser	Missile Frigate V	24	5	390000	14640
MLRSIV	MLRS IV	24	5.0518	400000	8746.6644736842
CoreLeech	Parasite V	24	10	510000	5100
CoreZenithPolarizer	Polarizer V	24	5	390000	24500
SaboteurII	Sabo II	24	4.7998	300000	4000
ShieldBearer	Shield-B I	24	4	640000	2033.3333333333
SniperII	Sniper II	24	9.5996	255000	19333.325
AntiStarshipArachnid	Spider V	24	5	255000	12240
SpaceTankIV	Tank IV	24	4	208000	12400
ShieldBooster	Armor Boost I	32	10.1052	259000	18000
SpireArmorRotterIV	Armor Rotter IV	32	8	655000	14700
ZenithBombardmentIII	Bombard III	32	18	575000	18266.6666666667
CoreBomber	Bomber V	32	5	390000	12200
SpireGravityDrainIV	Gravity Drain IV	32	8	425000	8350
SpireGravityRipperIV	Gravity Ripper IV	32	8	850000	8100
CoreMLRS	MLRS V	32	6.3147	500000	10933.3289473684
MunitionsBooster	Munitions I	32	10.1052	259000	18000
SaboteurIII	Sabo III	32	7.1997	450000	6000
ShieldBearerII	Shield-B II	32	8	1280000	4066.6666666667
SniperIII	Sniper III	32	14.3994	383000	29199.975
CoreSpaceTank	Tank V	32	5	260000	15600
ZenithReprocessor	Z-Reproc I	32	12	930000	44800
ShieldBoosterII	Armor Boost II	64	20.2104	515000	36000
CoreSpireArmorRotter	Armor Rotter V	64	10	820000	18300
ZenithBombardmentIV	Bombard IV	64	24	770000	24400
ZenithElectricBomber	Electric Bomber I	64	10.1052	520000	20213
CoreSpireGravityDrain	Gravity Drain V	64	10	535000	10375
CoreSpireGravityRipper	Gravity Ripper V	64	10	1070000	10200
MunitionsBoosterII	Munitions II	64	20.2104	515000	36000
SaboteurIV	Sabo IV	64	9.5996	600000	8000
SentinelFrigate	Sentinel Frig I	64	10.1052	520000	10300
ShieldBearerIII	Shield-B III	64	12	1920000	6066.6666666667
SniperIV	Sniper IV	64	19.1992	510000	38666.65
ZenithMedicFrigate	Z-Medic I	64	12	555000	12500
ZenithReprocessorII	Z-Reproc II	64	24	1870000	90000
ZenithSiegeEngine	Z-Siege I	64	12	620000	450000
ShieldBoosterIII	Armor Boost III	96	30.3157	770000	54000
CoreZenithBombardment	Bombard V	96	30	960000	30533.3333333333
ZenithElectricBomberII	Electric Bomber II	96	20.2104	1050000	40266
AIGuardianArtillery	Guard (Artillery I)	96	48	400000	133333.25
AIGuardianBeam	Guard (Beam I)	96	48	1119921	148500
AIGuardianFlak	Guard (Flak I)	96	48	1119921	137500
AIGuardianLaser	Guard (Laser I)	96	48	879882	136000
AIGuardianLightning	Guard (Lightning I)	96	48	1119921	133333.25
AIGuardianRaider	Guard (Raider I)	96	48	400000	137500
AIGuardianSniper	Guard (Sniper I)	96	48	400000	126666.5
AIGuardianSpider	Guard (Spider I)	96	48	400000	80000
AIGuardianTractor	Guard (Tractor I)	96	48	1119921	105000
SpireMaw	Maw I	96	38.3999	2100000	12600
MunitionsBoosterIII	Munitions III	96	30.3157	770000	54000
SpireRailcluster	S-RailC I	96	38.3999	3350000	137500
CoreSaboteur	Sabo V	96	11.9995	750000	10000
SentinelFrigateII	Sentinel Frig II	96	20.2104	1050000	20500
ShieldBearerIV	Shield-B IV	96	16	2550000	8133.3333333333
CoreSniper	Sniper V	96	23.999	635000	48666.65
SpireStealthBattleship	Stealth Battleship I	96	38.3999	1920000	50396.4
SpireTractorPlatform	Tractor Platform I	96	38.3999	1600000	48860
ZenithMedicFrigateII	Z-Medic II	96	24	1110000	25000
ZenithReprocessorIII	Z-Reproc III	96	36	2800000	134000
ZenithSiegeEngineII	Z-Siege II	96	24	1250000	900000
ShieldBoosterIV	Armor Boost IV	128	40.4209	1030000	72000
ZenithElectricBomberIII	Electric Bomber III	128	30.3157	1570000	60265.7368421053
AIGuardianArtilleryII	Guard (Artillery II)	128	96	800000	266666.5
AIGuardianBeamII	Guard (Beam II)	128	96	2239843	297000
AIGuardianFlakII	Guard (Flak II)	128	96	2239843	330000
AIGuardianLaserII	Guard (Laser II)	128	96	1759765	272000
AIGuardianLightningII	Guard (Lightning II)	128	96	2239843	266666.5
AIGuardianRaiderII	Guard (Raider II)	128	96	800000	275000
AIGuardianSniperII	Guard (Sniper II)	128	96	800000	253333.25
AIGuardianSpiderII	Guard (Spider II)	128	96	800000	160000
AIGuardianTractorII	Guard (Tractor II)	128	96	2239843	210000
SpireMawII	Maw II	128	76.7998	4200000	25200
MunitionsBoosterIV	Munitions IV	128	40.4209	1030000	72000
SpireRailclusterII	S-RailC II	128	76.7998	6700000	275000
SentinelFrigateIII	Sentinel Frig III	128	30.3157	1570000	30833.3157894737
CoreShieldBearer	Shield-B V	128	20	3200000	10200
LightStarship	Star:Flag	128	96	10000000	120000
SpireStealthBattleshipII	Stealth Battleship II	128	76.7998	3850000	100792.8
SpireTractorPlatformII	Tractor Platform II	128	76.7998	3200000	97300
ZenithMedicFrigateIII	Z-Medic III	128	36	1670000	37500
ZenithReprocessorIV	Z-Reproc IV	128	48	3750000	180000
ZenithSiegeEngineIII	Z-Siege III	128	36	1870000	1350000
CoreShieldBooster	Armor Boost V	256	50.5261	1290000	90000
ZenithElectricBomberIV	Electric Bomber IV	256	40.4209	2100000	80532.0526315789
AIGuardianArtilleryIII	Guard (Artillery III)	256	144	1200000	400000
AIGuardianBeamIII	Guard (Beam III)	256	144	3359765	445500
AIGuardianFlakIII	Guard (Flak III)	256	144	3359765	577500
AIGuardianLaserIII	Guard (Laser III)	256	144	2639648	408000
AIGuardianLightningIII	Guard (Lightning III)	256	144	3359765	400000
AIGuardianRaiderIII	Guard (Raider III)	256	144	1200000	412500
AIGuardianSniperIII	Guard (Sniper III)	256	144	1200000	380000
AIGuardianSpiderIII	Guard (Spider III)	256	144	1200000	240000
AIGuardianTractorIII	Guard (Tractor III)	256	144	3359765	315000
SpireMawIII	Maw III	256	115.1997	6300000	37800
CoreMunitionsBooster	Munitions Booster V	256	50.5261	1290000	90000
SpireCorvette	S-Corv I	256	96	8000000	900000
SpireRailclusterIII	S-RailC III	256	115.1997	10000000	410000
SentinelFrigateIV	Sentinel Frig IV	256	40.4209	2100000	41000
Flagship	Star:Flag II	256	192	20000000	240000
SpireStarshipI	Star:Spire	256	192	24000000	1080000
ZenithStarshipI	Star:Zenith	256	192	36000000	320000
SpireStealthBattleshipIII	Stealth Battleship III	256	115.1997	5750000	151189.4
SpireTractorPlatformIII	Tractor Platform III	256	115.1997	4800000	147000
ZenithMedicFrigateIV	Z-Medic IV	256	48	2230000	50000
CoreZenithReprocessor	Z-Reproc V	256	60	4650000	224000
ZenithSiegeEngineIV	Z-Siege IV	256	48	2500000	1800000
CoreZenithElectricBomber	Electric Bomber V	384	50.5261	2600000	100798.421052632
AIGuardianArtilleryIV	Guard (Artillery IV)	384	192	1600000	533333.25
AIGuardianBeamIV	Guard (Beam IV)	384	192	4479687	594000
AIGuardianFlakIV	Guard (Flak IV)	384	192	4479687	880000
AIGuardianLaserIV	Guard (Laser IV)	384	192	3519531	544000
AIGuardianLightningIV	Guard (Lightning IV)	384	192	4479687	533333.25
AIGuardianRaiderIV	Guard (Raider IV)	384	192	1600000	550000
AIGuardianSniperIV	Guard (Sniper IV)	384	192	1600000	506666.5
AIGuardianSpiderIV	Guard (Spider IV)	384	192	1600000	320000
AIGuardianTractorIV	Guard (Tractor IV)	384	192	4479687	420000
SpireMawIV	Maw IV	384	153.5996	8400000	50400
SpireCorvetteII	S-Corv II	384	192	16000000	1800000
SpireRailclusterIV	S-RailC IV	384	153.5996	13400000	550000
CoreSentinelFrigate	Sentinel Frig V	384	50.5261	2600000	51333.3157894737
BomberStarship	Star:Bomb I	384	96	18000000	150000
FlagshipIII	Star:Flag III	384	288	30000000	360000
Dreadnought	Star:Plasma I	384	96	10000000	1350000
AIRaidStarship	Star:Raid	384	64	1000000	136533.333333333
RiotControlStarshipI	Star:Riot	384	48	1800000	40000
SpireStarshipII	Star:Spire II	384	384	48000000	2160000
ZenithStarshipII	Star:Zenith II	384	384	72000000	640000
SpireStealthBattleshipIV	Stealth Battleship IV	384	153.5996	7700000	201585.8
SpireTractorPlatformIV	Tractor Platform IV	384	153.5996	6400000	194600
CoreZenithMedicFrigate	Z-Medic V	384	60	2780000	62500
CoreZenithSiegeEngine	Z-Siege V	384	60	3100000	2250000
AIGuardianArtilleryV	Guard (Artillery V)	512	240	2000000	666666.5
AIGuardianBeamV	Guard (Beam V)	512	240	5599609	742500
AIGuardianFlakV	Guard (Flak V)	512	240	5599609	1237500
AIGuardianLaserV	Guard (Laser V)	512	240	4399414	680000
AIGuardianLightningV	Guard (Lightning V)	512	240	5599609	666666.5
AIGuardianRaiderV	Guard (Raider V)	512	240	2000000	687500
AIGuardianSniperV	Guard (Sniper V)	512	240	2000000	633333.25
AIGuardianSpiderV	Guard (Spider V)	512	240	2000000	400000
AIGuardianTractorV	Guard (Tractor V)	512	240	5599609	525000
CoreSpireMaw	Maw V	512	191.9995	10500000	63000
SpireCorvetteIII	S-Corv III	512	288	24000000	2700000
CoreSpireRailcluster	S-RailC V	512	191.9995	16800000	685000
BomberStarshipII	Star:Bomb II	512	192	36000000	300000
FlagshipIV	Star:Flag IV	512	384	40000000	480000
DreadnoughtII	Star:Plasma II	512	192	20000000	2700000
AIRaidStarshipII	Star:Raid II	512	128	2000000	273066.666666667
RiotControlStarshipII	Star:Riot II	512	96	3600000	80000
SpireStarship	Star:Spire III	512	576	72000000	3240000
ZinthStarship	Star:Zenith III	512	576	108000000	960000
CoreSpireStealthBattleship	Stealth Battleship V	512	191.9995	9600000	251982.4
CoreSpireTractorPlatform	Tractor Platform V	512	191.9995	8000000	243600
SpireCorvetteIV	S-Corv IV	1024	384	32000000	3600000
BomberStarshipIII	Star:Bomb III	1024	288	54000000	450000
FlagshipV	Star:Flag V	1024	480	50000000	600000
DreadnoughtIII	Star:Plasma III	1024	288	30000000	4050000
AIRaidStarshipIII	Star:Raid III	1024	192	3000000	409600
RiotControlStarshipIII	Star:Riot III	1024	144	5400000	120000
SpireStarshipIV	Star:Spire IVI	1024	768	96000000	4300000
ZenithStarshipIV	Star:Zenith IV	1024	768	144000000	1275000
CoreSpireCorvette	S-Corv V	1536	480	40000000	4500000
SpirecraftImplosion	SC Implosion I	1536	24	1000000	2
SpirecraftSiegeTower	SC Siege Tower I	1536	24	4000000	106666.625
AISpirecraftShieldBearer	Spirecraft Shield Bearer - AI	1536	19.2	14000000	140000
BeamStarship	Star:Beam	1536	320	22500000	396000
BomberStarshipIV	Star:Bomb IV	1536	384	72000000	600000
CoreStarship	Star:Core	1536	480	50000000	600000
DreadnoughtIV	Star:Plasma IV	1536	384	40000000	5400000
AIRaidStarshipIV	Star:Raid IV	1536	256	4000000	546133.333333333
SpireStarshipV	Star:Spire V	1536	960	120000000	5400000
WarbirdStarship	Star:Warbird	1536	320	17000000	512000
ZenithStarshipV	Star:Zenith V	1536	960	180000000	1600000
SpirecraftImplosionII	SC Implosion II	2048	64	2000000	4
SpirecraftSiegeTowerII	SC Siege Tower II	2048	64	8000000	213333.333333333
AISpirecraftShieldBearerII	Spirecraft Shield Bearer II - AI	2048	48	28000000	280000
BomberStarshipV	Star:Bomb V	2048	480	90000000	750000
DreadnoughtV	Star:Plasma V	2048	480	50000000	6750000
AIRaidStarshipV	Star:Raid V	2048	320	5000000	682666.666666667
SpirecraftImplosionIII	SC Implosion III	4096	144	3000000	6
SpirecraftSiegeTowerIII	SC Siege Tower III	4096	144	12000000	320000
AISpirecraftShieldBearerIII	Spirecraft Shield Bearer III - AI	4096	96	42000000	420000
SpirecraftImplosionIV	SC Implosion IV	6144	384	4000000	8
SpirecraftSiegeTowerIV	SC Siege Tower IV	6144	384	16000000	426666.5
AISpirecraftShieldBearerIV	Spirecraft Shield Bearer IV - AI	6144	192	56000000	560000
SpirecraftImplosionV	SC Implosion V	8192	960	5000000	10
SpirecraftSiegeTowerV	SC Siege Tower V	8192	960	20000000	533333
AISpirecraftShieldBearerV	Spirecraft Shield Bearer V - AI	8192	480	70000000	700000
ArmoredGolemAIAdvanced	Armored Golem - AI	16384	2970	250000000	2500000
ArtilleryGolemAIAdvanced	Artillery Golem - AI	16384	2970	100000000	12500000
BlackWidowGolemAIAdvanced	Black Widow Golem - AI	16384	2970	200000000	1750000
RegeneratorGolemAIAdvanced	Regen Golem - AI	16384	2970	400000000	600000
AIHunterKiller	Hunter/Killer I	32768	1	100000000	8666666
AIHunterKillerII	Hunter/Killer II	65536	2	200000000	17333333
AIHunterKillerIII	Hunter/Killer III	98304	3	300000000	26000000
AIHunterKillerIV	Hunter/Killer IV	131702	4	400000000	34666666
AIHunterKillerV	Hunter/Killer V	262144	5	500000000	43333333
AIMothership	Mothership	262144	960	800000000	8000000

[TechSY730]

The only thing I see is that although the Warbird and the Beam Starship have exo costs similar to the other offensively oriented Mk. V starships, they have a RelativeStrength more in line with what they were back when they were Mk. III.

Also, lol at the AI considering the Laser Gattling the most worthless unit individually (aka, just a single one of them)


EDIT: Also, the relative costs of the Raid Starships seem a bit low compared to their similarly tiered starships. Yea, they should be a bit lower due to their specific purpose nature rather than straight up combat effectiveness, but they seem to be a bit too low comparatively.

EDIT2: I'm assuming the very, very low RelativeStrength of the hunter killers is because none of the mechanics that use RelativeStrength are eligible to use hunter killers?

[keith.lamothe]

Also, lol at the AI considering the Laser Gattling the most worthless unit individually (aka, just a single one of them)

Ah yes, the poor gatling I.  Never gets invited to any reindeer games.  "Oh, don't worry son, it could be worse", "No Dad, it couldn't!  I've got a point cost of _one_.  Any lower and I'd just not be on the list at all".

EDIT2: I'm assuming the very, very low RelativeStrength of the hunter killers is because none of the mechanics that use RelativeStrength are eligible to use hunter killers?

Yea, they've just never had theirs set; shouldn't impact anything since they're never on a "normal" behavior.

[Diazo]

I don't have time to crunch numbers at the moment, but it looks like the starship cap change is throwing things off.

A Spire Starship Mk V costs 75% what a Plasma Siege Mk V costs. I fear the Spire Starship a hell of a lot more then I fear the Plasma Siege.

(Going off remembered stats here.)

I'll do a more detailed post with math when I get home and can reference the game but that's my first impression after a 10 second glance.

D.

[Eternaly_Lost]

Also, lol at the AI considering the Laser Gattling the most worthless unit individually (aka, just a single one of them)

Ah yes, the poor gatling I.  Never gets invited to any reindeer games.  "Oh, don't worry son, it could be worse", "No Dad, it couldn't!  I've got a point cost of _one_.  Any lower and I'd just not be on the list at all".

EDIT2: I'm assuming the very, very low RelativeStrength of the hunter killers is because none of the mechanics that use RelativeStrength are eligible to use hunter killers?

Yea, they've just never had theirs set; shouldn't impact anything since they're never on a "normal" behavior.

All we need now is for the game to decide rather then spawning a single Hunter Killer Mk5. It spawns 262144 Laser Gattling MK1.

Somehow I get the feeling those would win against the Hunter Killer and be a lot harder to kill then the hunter killer would.

[Diazo]

Also, lol at the AI considering the Laser Gattling the most worthless unit individually (aka, just a single one of them)

Ah yes, the poor gatling I.  Never gets invited to any reindeer games.  "Oh, don't worry son, it could be worse", "No Dad, it couldn't!  I've got a point cost of _one_.  Any lower and I'd just not be on the list at all".

EDIT2: I'm assuming the very, very low RelativeStrength of the hunter killers is because none of the mechanics that use RelativeStrength are eligible to use hunter killers?

Yea, they've just never had theirs set; shouldn't impact anything since they're never on a "normal" behavior.

All we need now is for the game to decide rather then spawning a single Hunter Killer Mk5. It spawns 262144 Laser Gattling MK1.

Somehow I get the feeling those would win against the Hunter Killer and be a lot harder to kill then the hunter killer would.

Lightning Warhead.

Solving practical problems since game start.

 

D.