Author Topic: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion  (Read 2297 times)

Offline Fozzy

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Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« on: November 15, 2011, 05:03:24 pm »
Okay, I'm on level 7 difficulty. As far as I'm aware, you cant, despite what the game says, turn off cross planet attacks. Now that's fine I enjoy the unique  challenge it poses however, I've played 3 games and lost all to cross planet attacks in the mid game.

This is frustrating, usually by this point I have about 3000 different ships a Golem or two and starships. The Ai is typically over the mark2 tech boundary of aggression and I'm getting cross planet attacks in the 2000+ region.

The number of planets I has varies, in my latest game i have about 8, each with around 200 ships on and some good wormhole defences. However instead of the enemy ships attacking from all directions, I get all 2000+ comming through at once. And just going on a trip round my systems systematically destroying everything. My usual tactic is to withdraw completely to my homeworld, defend until its safe and then expand from there. (This of course is not ideal or evidently effective)

Help!

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 05:26:54 pm »
Hey, welcome to the forums. :)

My advice, defense in depth. Don't rely on defenses only on you chokepoint. For that matter, don't even only rely only on your defenses on your AI facing worlds. Now from what I have seen, I have a strange way of turret placement. But what I do is ensure my core worlds (planets adjacent to my homeworld) are moderately well defended at all times (even when the AI is far away) and make sure my homeworld is quite well defended (again, even if the AI is far away). Saved my butt on several occasions when the AI managed to slip past my chokepoint.

Offline x4000

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 07:17:00 pm »
Yep, there's no way to turn off Cross Planet Attacks, what you're seeing the setting for is making waves into a Cross-Planet thing (which ups the difficulty, not the other way around).  CPAs are a pretty integral part of the game's general flow.

Part of the problem is that you're trying to use your homeworld as your choke point.  This is bad bad bad, because there's stuff that can slip past force fields, and there's just no margin for error.  It would be the equivalent of putting all the defenders right in front of the goal as soon as the other team has the ball in soccer -- like techsy says, you need defense in depth in some form to beat CPAs (and honestly, if you can't handle a CPA, then when you get to the AI homeworlds the spillover from those fights are likely to kill you as well, so you want to get the hang of defense in depth in general).

Make no mistake, CPAs are one of the most common times for folks to lose -- I think I lost most of my recent games during those, though definitely not all of them.  What you really want is at least -- IMO -- three planets that the AI has to go through to get to your homeworld. 

Three planets, all in a line, that you know they'll hit, that is.  Then put turrets on primarily the outermost one and less so on the next two.  You want enough on the inner planets so that any AI raid starships that are coming through will get trashed before they reach your home planet, but then you want all the rest of your ships and turrets and mines and such to be on that outer planet to deal with the CPA.  Obviously you have a mobile fleet that is probably normally split up on defending other locations and attacking the AI, etc -- when a CPA is announced you have plenty of time to bring them all home to your last-stand location.

When the AI attacks your bottleneck stronghold planet, this is generally what I try to insure is happening to them:

1. As they come through the wormhole, some of them are flying through minefields, others are getting tractored, and the remainder are getting shot at by my giant fleet that is waiting there.

2. Anything that slips through, which will be a lot of stuff given the size of the incoming CPA, is getting shot at continuously by my ring of spider turrets that are slowly stranding their ships.  I then ignore the stranded ships to focus on the ones that are still mobile, and come back to mop up later.

3. I have such a strong economy (I'm economy-focused in my RTS games) that I can have my entire fleet (starships and golems aside) die in that first encounter with the AI ships coming through the wormhole, and by the time the AI clears the wormhole and gets to the other side of my planet, I've completely replaced my fleet and thanks to the warp gates they've popped out and are waiting to deal with the AI at my command station on that outer planet.

4. My replacement fleet will fight them again, and will probably lose again, but will take out tons of their ships.  At this point their forces are hopefully thirded, including all the stranded ships.  They will then proceed to knock down my 1-2 force fields around the command station and then take out the command station.  I don't really care.

5. By this point I have a third fleet that's being built and warping into either my second or third planet in the chain of planets leading to my homeworld.  Depends on how well I'm doing up until this point.  If it's going poorly then I go for the planet closer to my homeworld, being more cautious.  If it's going well then I go for the planet closer to the AI, to head them off early and minimize my losses.

6. If it was going poorly already, then the AI will quickly swarm my second planet and take it.  I'll build minefields and such to have them incur more losses, but it's incidental damage.  I might throw some lightning warheads at them as they cluster around wormholes, and that can do some substantial damage.  If things are really REALLY going poorly, then I'm prepared to nuke this specific planet and reap the AIP increase while at the same time stopping the CPA stone cold.  Whatever was mark V or otherwise nuke-immune then gets through and my waiting fleet on the third planet takes care of them.

7. If it was going well, then it's just a fight to the finish on that second planet using conventional means.  If I lose that, that's okay, as I can then just repeat on the third planet and still they didn't reach my home planet.

8. Sometimes a few ships get all the way to my home planet and so it's important to have turrets and some mobile ships there to deal with raid starships or whatever it was that slipped through (usually it's those slippery ships that lead to my loss, not the mass of ships that is the big distractor).



Unless the AIP has really run away from you and you have comparably low numbers of ships for what the AIP value is, you should be able to turn back most CPAs this way.  You'll lose some planets, but that doesn't cost you anything permanent since you can have the colony ships pre-built and waiting.  The trick is making sure that your starting planet can support this sort of strategy.  When you're starting out, choosing a map and a map style that is conducive to this is a great thing to do when you're newer to the game or if you're a bit of a turtle like me. 

The more open maps like grid or hubs or similar are really vastly more difficult and for a completely other playstyle that I don't play myself.  I play grid occasionally, but I don't find it that fun and I'm not sure I've ever won a grid map game.  I tend to like realistic, simple, tree, snake, X, concentric circles, and the new maze maps, and they tend to support my playstyle well.


Hope that helps!
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 04:51:15 am »
I often just split up my fleet for a CPA. Those 2000 enemy ships will always attack multiple of your planets, not just one (unless you play snake map). If you got golems that can handle themselves quite well (black widow, cursed, armored, botnet), put each golem on a different planet and let them do what they're good at. split the rest of your fleet in 2 or 3 groups and put those groups on different planets as well. You will most likely not be able to defend all your planets this way... but you'll be able to send one of the "groups" to support where needed quite easily.

Also always keep an eye on your "threat". Seeing how many threat ships are left and where they are can be very useful. Often a lot of the CPA ships won't attack you yet, because you have something powerful like a golem that scares them off. If you pull back the golem to help elsewhere, the stalking ships will decide to attack, which can be very annoying and deadly. try taking out the stalking ships first (by attacking the planet they're on) before you decide to let your "groups" join up again for example.

Also Martyrs can be very useful, though I do not know if you have Spirecraft enabled.

 All this combined with my tactic of always using logistics commands and gravity / tractor turrets always works for me. Even dif 8 endgame CPA's have a hard time doing much damage to my systems.

Offline Fozzy

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 06:52:59 am »
Hey guys! Thanks alot, theres some really usefull in depth answers here ^_^

I'm getting better each time I play thankfully and comming to grips with some of the more advanced commands, tactics etc which means I'm advancing faster and getting a bit more depth out of my games.

I like the warp gates strategum x4000. I also need to master patrols and roiving interplaneteary defence forces, that seems like a key element to in depth defences. I'm guilty of microing a little, because i dont particularly trust my ships on thier own.

anyway, thanks alot for the advice and warm welcome :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 07:03:35 am »
Our pleasure!
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Offline superking

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 02:18:56 pm »
a few strategically placed black hole machines can make a world of difference, although you have to fight frugally (eg. raid with tough things that dont die and repair them for the duration of their building) to afford them in any decent timeframe

Offline relmz32

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 09:37:08 pm »
Another important issue to surviving CPAs is managing your threat buildup and killing off any large groups of AI Ships when you can.  Even the wave itself does not always arrive at the same time, if you can make a quick hit and fade attack to clear up some ships that are stalking around your planets.
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Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 11:40:22 pm »
The CPAs will be distributed around several wormholes. If you can manage your defenses/fleet so that the threat is always greater on your side than theirs, the enemy will just cluster around wormholes, a perfect opportunity for a warhead or martyr.

Oh, yeah and building on what zoutzakje said, a botnet golem in particular makes short work of most CPAs. It's fragile though, so it should need an escort until it can zombify a few salvo's worth of ships. Zenith bombards are the worst thing to gu up against with a botnet, since they do huge damage at an incredible range and stay on alert always, so sneaking up is impractical. The best way to get around them is send in trash ships (like fighters) to waste their shots and then take advantage of their long reload time.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 11:43:48 pm by Coppermantis »
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Offline Philo

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2011, 04:49:18 pm »
As most have pointed out, defense in depth is very important. Spider Turrets will help you the most if you can place even a few on the planets on route to your homeworld.

Other thing to consider is warp gate raiding, destroy as many warp gates from sources close to your homeworld as possible. This way the CPA's can't warp directly close to you but will have to fly through the planets. And if you have scouts on the planets you can see their numbers going up and can prepare for the attack. This way you won't suffer a blitz attack out of nowhere which is to what I lose the game most of the time. This also works against exo-waves.

Offline atomjack

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2011, 03:56:37 am »
A couple of other things I'd note:

1) Knowledge is power! You should have a scout on every hostile world with a wormhole to your space. As soon as the CPA is announced, go to the galaxy map and show "Detected Threat" - it will soon show you from which direction(s) you're facing attack.

2) You're (IMO) spreading your forces too thin. You shouldn't have 200 ships on each of 8 planets. Cover the incoming wormholes with tractor and gravity turrets to slow down any incoming forces, distribute a decent sprinkling of other turrets to handle low-level aggression, and have a single large rapid reponse fleet. When the CPA forces come in, you need to be meeting them with numerical superiority. If you're trying to fend off a 2000-ship fleet one planet at a time with 200-ship fleets then you're going to be slaughtered. Logistics command stations and the Zenith speed boost thingies help immeasurably here.

If you've got 3000 ships plus a few golems, then a 2000-ship mark-II wave really shouldn't be lasting longer than a few minutes. Let them have a planet if necessary while you get your fleet in order, then hit them with the whole lot at once.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2011, 09:25:07 am »
You should also have enough transports to move your whole fleet at once.  Right before a CPA hits, I'll often pack my fleet into transports and sit them at a central location so I can rapidly get them where they need to go.  Transports don't build super-fast, so don't wait too long to build up the capacity.

Offline superking

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Re: Cross planet attacks and mid-late game expansion
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2011, 01:57:00 pm »
stockpile huge numbers of lighting/emp missiles in safe places, send them in when things look dire