Cross Planet Attacks

[Wanderer]

Okay, that's a bit brutal.

From the wiki:
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Cross_Planet_Attacks

The cross-planet attack is, rather, based on the tech level of the AI at the time the attack is declared. For example, if the current tech level of the incoming enemy waves is II, then that is the tech level that the cross-planet ships will be. If the tech level of the two AIs differ, then you can't be certain which level the attack will be.

That's all Well and Dandy, however, I've got Tech II AIs currently tossing CORE ships at me during this CPA.  Ow?!  How does the AI determine if it's going to use non-correct tech ships?  Does anyone know where I can find the ratio offhand?  It's rather off...

I have a savegame if you'd like to join me in the pain.

[Minotaar]

Well, you got what was coming to ya 
Basically, if there's not enough ships in the galaxy of the current mark, it goes to the next mark... then the next mark.. and then it becomes Soviet Russia and the AI neuters YOU!!

[TechSY730]

Well, you got what was coming to ya 
Basically, if there's not enough ships in the galaxy of the current mark, it goes to the next mark... then the next mark.. and then it becomes Soviet Russia and the AI neuters YOU!!

Well, actually, if it doesn't have enough ships of the current mark, it will first search down marks. So if it is a Mk. III wave, but they don't have enough spare Mk. III ships, then they will search for Mk. II. If they still don't have enough, then Mk. I. If they still don't have enough, only then will they search for Mk. IV. (And then after that, if needed, Mk. V)

If after searching through all of their marks and still don't have enough ships (including searching through AI barracks), only then will they "cut their losses" and send a CPA of less ships than they were "hoping" for.

[keith.lamothe]

The CPA logic does get somewhat involved.  Do you have a save from before the "release" (edit: meaning while the warning of pending cpa is still showing)?  If so I can figure out how it decided that dumping V stuff on you was a good idea.

[Hearteater]

I'm pretty sure its logic went: "Spawning CPA...wait, we're playing against GUDare again?  Core ships it is!"

[keith.lamothe]

It's that meddlesome Earth planet.

[Wanderer]

The CPA logic does get somewhat involved.  Do you have a save from before the "release" (edit: meaning while the warning of pending cpa is still showing)?  If so I can figure out how it decided that dumping V stuff on you was a good idea.

Attached.  Had to adjust one or two things so I didn't have to explain how to save the homeworld.

Watch the massive incursion at Cyborg.  When it starts to go really wrong it seems like it's basically all IV/V ships.  There's some blip about what it releases but catching it is nearly impossible to read it through.

[keith.lamothe]

Had to adjust one or two things so I didn't have to explain how to save the homeworld.

Always an occupational hazard with one of your games

Thanks, will take a look in a few minutes.

[Wanderer]

Had to adjust one or two things so I didn't have to explain how to save the homeworld.

Always an occupational hazard with one of your games

Thanks, will take a look in a few minutes.

Heh, yeah.  Build 4 Grav turrets off x wormhole.  one more in FFs on command.  Send Bomber SSs to Craps to blow Gravity Guardian blocking transport.  Leave there to soak damage until Transport gets halfway through system then send bombers home.  Pause on Macross to refuel Transport and release Blades in Homeworld.  Send blades to Shawshank just as cpa releases to harass locals before reinforcements....

Yeah, easier to build a few extra things so you didn't have to deal with that.   Blade Spawners and necessary turrets are in position.

[Wanderer]

Well, you got what was coming to ya 
Basically, if there's not enough ships in the galaxy of the current mark, it goes to the next mark... then the next mark.. and then it becomes Soviet Russia and the AI neuters YOU!!

Well, actually, if it doesn't have enough ships of the current mark, it will first search down marks. So if it is a Mk. III wave, but they don't have enough spare Mk. III ships, then they will search for Mk. II. If they still don't have enough, then Mk. I. If they still don't have enough, only then will they search for Mk. IV. (And then after that, if needed, Mk. V)

If after searching through all of their marks and still don't have enough ships (including searching through AI barracks), only then will they "cut their losses" and send a CPA of less ships than they were "hoping" for.

I thought they'd exo-gate in troops if they couldn't find enough.  Hrmph.  Guess that was inaccurate.

[keith.lamothe]

There's some blip about what it releases but catching it is nearly impossible to read it through.

In case of something like that, click the "Message Log" button that's up there and it will show all the messages that have shown up there since the last load.  Looking at that, I'm definitely seeing mkII-V stuff freed (only 340 of it is IV and 153 is V, but still).  I'm not positive this is a bug, but it seems odd that your galaxy wouldn't have more than 601 mkII and 265 mkIII ships to free.


And they will create new units if they literally don't have enough free(edit: guarding) ships of _any_ mark, but they go for the higher mark stuff laying around first.

[Wanderer]

There's some blip about what it releases but catching it is nearly impossible to read it through.

In case of something like that, click the "Message Log" button that's up there and it will show all the messages that have shown up there since the last load.  Looking at that, I'm definitely seeing mkII-V stuff freed (only 340 of it is IV and 153 is V, but still).  I'm not positive this is a bug, but it seems odd that your galaxy wouldn't have more than 601 mkII and 265 mkIII ships to free.

That's... actually quite possible.  If it's been alerted I've blown away most of anything on it.  Most of the stuff in the back would cover 200 of the MK IIs.  The rest would be coreworld, edges, and Riker arm, and a lot of that is high mark.

EDIT: half the wave (493 ships) being twice as strong as it's supposed to be is enough.  I'm definately not prepped for that.

And they will create new units if they literally don't have enough free(edit: guarding) ships of _any_ mark, but they go for the higher mark stuff laying around first.

Crap.  Not a bug, I've just rinsed my galaxy clean to the point where this CPA is brutalizing.  Crap crap crap.

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, I think the ref's going to have to call this a fair play.  It appears to be freeing _all_ of its mkII stuff, and then all its mkIII, and then all its mkIV, and finally freeing some (possibly all) of it's mkV stuff.  I think the low low-mark population is due to the AI only holding 33 planets, the high-difficulty increasing the mark level of a fair number of those, and the fairly intense nerfing/neutering/cleanup that's taken place here and there.

On the bright side, if you counterattack fairly soon (before a lot of reinforcements), there won't be so many guards to deal with.

Btw, I was wrong about it just creating ships to fill in the gaps, it doesn't appear to do anything like that.  If there were any barracks it would pull from those, but it genuinely had those ships to begin with.

[keith.lamothe]

With the mkV stuff coming in from as-far-away-as-it-gets and in separate groups, is it possible to distract them on other worlds (2-3 hops out from cyborg) by running transports or raid-ss around, etc?  Seems like there'd be some room for smoke and mirrors so Cyborg could take things in more bite-sized chunks.

Enough room?  Probably not.

[Wanderer]

Ok, I think the ref's going to have to call this a fair play.  It appears to be freeing _all_ of its mkII stuff, and then all its mkIII, and then all its mkIV, and finally freeing some (possibly all) of it's mkV stuff.  I think the low low-mark population is due to the AI only holding 33 planets, the high-difficulty increasing the mark level of a fair number of those, and the fairly intense nerfing/neutering/cleanup that's taken place here and there.

Ow.  It really needs to ratio when it does that.  This is brutal.  Not just 'ouch', but what the OUCH GODDAMMIT STOP IT THAT HURTS!  Ah well.  Alright.  *cracks knuckles*

Fine, AI.  You wanna be the badboy?  Let's get dangerous.

On the bright side, if you counterattack fairly soon (before a lot of reinforcements), there won't be so many guards to deal with.

With... what?!    There's going to be nothing left this side of Macross in 2 minutes... 

Btw, I was wrong about it just creating ships to fill in the gaps, it doesn't appear to do anything like that.  If there were any barracks it would pull from those, but it genuinely had those ships to begin with.

Gotcha.  Note to self: Don't be so aggressive in cleaning up worlds, the AI no like it.

I can probably give the inbounds a really good war in Confederation before the drifters hit Cyborg and meet the turret ball, especially if I'm careful about distance to the 'runway'.  That leaves one of the Fabs exposed to inbounds from BlackJack but I'm not sure that can be helped.  The cutlasses are just going to chew it to pieces and there's nothing that'll kill them fast enough to avoid that.  MapGen stuck it on the wormhole, I can't even delay access to it.

Alright, thanks for looking into it.  Time to go play a game.