Crazy Idea Re: Turret Caps

[keith.lamothe]

I will only have an objection to this if it ends up breaking Fallen Spire games. Distributed defense is all fine and dandy, but in an FS game it needs to be able to do enough damage to an exo wave that your 'cushion' worlds can break the exo before it destroys anything too important, and FS exo waves already have the ability to overrun fairly serious fortress worlds without taking enough damage to be stopped until they hit the next Spire City fortress (or the one after that, sometimes). However, I haven't played much recently, and haven't had the opportunity to play with the core turrets at all, so bear in mind that this statement isn't taking those into account.

It is true that nerfing chokepoints heavily would really hit FS games.  But do the changes I said I was planning on doing for next week's release actually nerf chokepoints significantly?  In fact, they're a buff if you've got some decent core turretry.

[Tridus]

I think they're a nerf if you get no core turrets and you unlock no mk IV turrets.

In a FS game, at least one of those things should be doable, especially if there's a nerf to mk II and III K costs.

At that point it's actually a buff, since you'll have mk I-III turrets to place on worlds behind the line more readily to soften up the exo more if it does get past your outer fortifications. I play a lot of FS games, and I don't think it'll be affected much by this change.

[Eternaly_Lost]

On that end, Fallen Spire cities defenses need to really be buffed. They suppose to be the end all of defences, but I find that the modular forts do a lot better then the cities do. For things described as having very large guns, even the first Exo wave requires me to move my main fleet back, or have what feels like every single turret in game standing between them and the city or the buildouts all just go pop.

Although, I wonder if the idea way to do it would be some sort of city fold out that goes into all planets next to the city that lets you build special Spire turrets of some kind. So you don't need to balance Fallen Spire Exos against normal game turrets.

[keith.lamothe]

On that end, Fallen Spire cities defenses need to really be buffed.

Mainly they (and the FS cap ships) need the stat-rescaling to happen (basically everything that's not supposed to be a superweapon getting its health and attack divided by 100).  I'd like to do that pre-8.0, but it will need significant rebalancing of the superweapon stuff that isn't as clear-cut, so it's probably wiser to wait til post-8.0.

[Peter Ebbesen]

On that end, Fallen Spire cities defenses need to really be buffed.

Mainly they (and the FS cap ships) need the stat-rescaling to happen (basically everything that's not supposed to be a superweapon getting its health and attack divided by 100).  I'd like to do that pre-8.0, but it will need significant rebalancing of the superweapon stuff that isn't as clear-cut, so it's probably wiser to wait til post-8.0.

So do a quick-and-dirty doubling of the hitpoints, forcefields, main weapon damage, and module weapon damage of FS cap ships and FS defenses until post-8.0 stat rescaling, and call it a day?

Basically, give them the Golem treatment.

I have no ulterior motives for suggesting this, no sir.

[DrFranknfurter]

buff the city yes, ships no. The city already has the problem of not scaling up in multiple HW games unlike turrets or ships. (I like multiple HW games but have found things much harder to keep alive after a recent update... waves seem x4 or x10 time larger and I don't know why).

[Arc-3N-4B]

Buff the Spire Fleet?

Sure. Let's buff H/Ks, while we're at it. Radar dampening immunity, and 4,000 radar dampening on the H/K itself sound good?

EDIT: 6,000 radar dampening. I think that's what their range is.

[Lancefighter]

I've found that the only real way to deal with the 'you just put up your first hub' wave is warheads. And then the next 'you just put up a hub' wave also requires warheads. And then often waves inbetween require warheads..

[Tridus]

I think that's highly dependant on map type. If you can direct the first city exo to a chokepoint (or two), you can fortify it first and it becomes a lot easier.

[Lancefighter]

yeah I've been doing a lot of honeycomb recently, that map can have some nice chokepoints but also can be a pain. Mostly the pain early on.

[Fleet Unity]

On that end, Fallen Spire cities defenses need to really be buffed.

Mainly they (and the FS cap ships) need the stat-rescaling to happen (basically everything that's not supposed to be a superweapon getting its health and attack divided by 100).  I'd like to do that pre-8.0, but it will need significant rebalancing of the superweapon stuff that isn't as clear-cut, so it's probably wiser to wait til post-8.0.

Does this mean that all Fleet Ships, Starships, ect are going to be debuffed or weakened? 

[keith.lamothe]

Does this mean that all Fleet Ships, Starships, ect are going to be debuffed or weakened?

Relative to superweapons, yes.  Basically in the past there was normal stuff and there were superweapons, and the superweapons stomped all over normal stuff (except when heavily outnumbered), and it was good.  Then after a few years of balancing and raiding up some normal stuff that used to be really weak (certain bonus ships, guard posts, etc), we realized that the superweapons were often being taken down by surprisingly small amounts of normal stuff.

So the idea is to leave the relationship of normal stuff to other normal stuff the same (such that you wouldn't even notice the difference in a purely vanilla game), but let the superweapons be relatively stronger again.

Not necessarily 100x stronger than they are now, mind you; the exact ratios would have to be worked out via experimentation.

[Fleet Unity]

Does this mean that all Fleet Ships, Starships, ect are going to be debuffed or weakened?

Relative to superweapons, yes.  Basically in the past there was normal stuff and there were superweapons, and the superweapons stomped all over normal stuff (except when heavily outnumbered), and it was good.  Then after a few years of balancing and raiding up some normal stuff that used to be really weak (certain bonus ships, guard posts, etc), we realized that the superweapons were often being taken down by surprisingly small amounts of normal stuff.

So the idea is to leave the relationship of normal stuff to other normal stuff the same (such that you wouldn't even notice the difference in a purely vanilla game), but let the superweapons be relatively stronger again.

Not necessarily 100x stronger than they are now, mind you; the exact ratios would have to be worked out via experimentation.

Ok like  how stuff was in Version 3 does this also mean that powerful ships like the Spire Railcluster are only going to have less than 1 million health?

[Tridus]

Ok like  how stuff was in Version 3 does this also mean that powerful ships like the Spire Railcluster are only going to have less than 1 million health?

Probably,yeah. It'll make a lot of the numbers more readable.

[Aklyon]

Ok like  how stuff was in Version 3 does this also mean that powerful ships like the Spire Railcluster are only going to have less than 1 million health?

Probably,yeah. It'll make a lot of the numbers more readable.

Wasn't 'make things more readable' one of the bigger non-stats reasons for the stat-rebalancing at one point anyway?