Author Topic: Counterattack Posts  (Read 8035 times)

Offline Mad Rubicant

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 05:52:19 pm »
It would make core turrets more useful.  I'm borderline on core turrets being OP (more in the sense of overshadowing normal turret unlocks as a choice than sheer power, but to some extent power too) but the general consensus I'm hearing is that people are having way too much fun with them to want a nerf ;)

The only Core turrets that are overpowered are the Sniper and Spider turrets, since a cap of Sniper/Spider Vs beat a cap of Sniper/Spider Is every time. The rest of the base turrets I don't really buy, but that's because I'm playing on diff 7.3, so I don't need it.

Why don't we have Sniper/Spider II/IIIs, anyways?

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 06:28:59 pm »
Why don't we have Sniper/Spider II/IIIs, anyways?

I don't know.  I've wanted them for a while now, as I always run out of Mk1s.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 06:37:46 pm »
Why don't we have Sniper/Spider II/IIIs, anyways?

I don't know.  I've wanted them for a while now, as I always run out of Mk1s.
So do I.

Offline ZaneWolfe

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2014, 06:50:05 pm »
What about this idea though.
Quote
I would suggest that once a relay is built, rather than only sending normal waves at the player, it also starts warping a % of the current threatfleet's firepower with normal/somewhat longer than normal wave timers. Probably have that % scale on the average AI difficulty in game. Say 80% at 10/10 (Because that is supposed to be the greatest pain, hell you might even go 100% at that level) and scale down from there. If 7/7 is the main balance point, maybe have 7/7 Average be 50%?
A) Could it be done and B) would anyone else enjoy it?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 09:41:35 pm by ZaneWolfe »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2014, 07:48:30 pm »
Why don't we have Sniper/Spider II/IIIs, anyways?
Because MkIs are already overpowered :)  But again, too much fun to nerf.

Quote from: ZaneWolfe
Quote from: keith.lamothe
My intent was that it scale with normal wave strength, which would include scaling with AIP and factor in unit strength (rather than unit count).  That way it also factors in multi-HW, etc.
Wll you didn't say that, so I had no way of knowing. It's nice to hear that the new baby didn't entirely kill your brain. So we know you're using it, but you need to work on the communication bit.  :P

Quote from: original post in thread
- the rate of accumulation would be based on the strength of the threat waiting on that planet
- the amount required to complete the relay would probably be based on the base strengh of waves at that point in the game (so larger waves = takes longer to build a relay)

;)
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Offline ZaneWolfe

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2014, 09:42:50 pm »
Quote from: ZaneWolfe
Quote from: keith.lamothe
My intent was that it scale with normal wave strength, which would include scaling with AIP and factor in unit strength (rather than unit count).  That way it also factors in multi-HW, etc.
Wll you didn't say that, so I had no way of knowing. It's nice to hear that the new baby didn't entirely kill your brain. So we know you're using it, but you need to work on the communication bit.  :P

Quote from: original post in thread
- the rate of accumulation would be based on the strength of the threat waiting on that planet
- the amount required to complete the relay would probably be based on the base strengh of waves at that point in the game (so larger waves = takes longer to build a relay)

;)

I have no idea what you are talking about. Clearly I didn't simply miss something in the original posts because I am blind. Such a thing is completely impossible. How dare you suggest it. If you are done with your baseless slander, what about my idea?

Quote
I would suggest that once a relay is built, rather than only sending normal waves at the player, it also starts warping a % of the current threatfleet's firepower with normal/somewhat longer than normal wave timers. Probably have that % scale on the average AI difficulty in game. Say 80% at 10/10 (Because that is supposed to be the greatest pain, hell you might even go 100% at that level) and scale down from there. If 7/7 is the main balance point, maybe have 7/7 Average be 50%?
A) Could it be done and B) would anyone else enjoy it?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 09:44:23 pm by ZaneWolfe »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2014, 09:50:56 pm »
Quote
I would suggest that once a relay is built, rather than only sending normal waves at the player, it also starts warping a % of the current threatfleet's firepower with normal/somewhat longer than normal wave timers. Probably have that % scale on the average AI difficulty in game. Say 80% at 10/10 (Because that is supposed to be the greatest pain, hell you might even go 100% at that level) and scale down from there. If 7/7 is the main balance point, maybe have 7/7 Average be 50%?
A) Could it be done and B) would anyone else enjoy it?
It could be done, but I'm not sure it fits as a core mechanic.  Sounds a bit more plot-like.  Because that could mean a lot of threat jumping your front line, as opposed to simply waves (which have a fairly predictable size).
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2014, 09:53:09 pm »
For all of those worried about a "hunt it down" style thing like the dyson antagonizer can happen sometimes, if I am reading this properly, it seems to me that this would only happen on planets with large accumulated threat  (not threat-fleet) on AI planets that have been there for quite some time, which almost always means "building up" outside of a chokepoint. This means that the "warp relay" would almost always be on a planet adjacent to a human planet (pretty much the only way I can see a warp relay being build >1 hop away are strange cases involving beacheads on AI or nuetral planets).


That said, I always have found it somewhat distasteful mechanics that would allow the AI to "magically teleport" anywhere they want. If they could do that, why wouldn't they do that as soon as you started taking more planets to cover your homeworld. It seems like a blatant violations of their own rules they are supposed to follow.

I would much prefer them to do more "traditional" raiding techniques, like stuffing raiding ships into transports (or carriers, whatever), maybe escorted with cloaker starships or whatnot, and making a beeline into inner worlds. Those don't feel like cheating.

Now I get that ultra choke-points can stop even those dedicated raiding tactics, so I get a "no warpgate needed warp" style warp may still sometimes be needed. But it would be nice if the AI at least tried those conventional techniques before falling back on "lol, I didn't need warp gates after all!". It would certainly feel more fair and a "soft counter" first. Jumping straight to a hard counter that plays fast and loose with established rules just seems like it would piss people off (and indeed, has, as the existing counterwarp posts have done). It seems like this would piss people off (or at least annoy) almost as much, but just somewhat less as no longer is required to trigger, accomplish a short-term goal, and has some softer counters for the triggering conditions. But the mechanic, once fired, is just as hard (read, annoying). EDIT: In other words, I would like something where the triggers to the mechanic are more soft-counterable as well as the mechanic, once fired, being more soft counterable (or at least at first, and save the hard counter, rule-sidestepping mechanics as more of a fall-back, not a first thing)

Just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 09:55:46 pm by TechSY730 »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 10:13:04 am »
That said, I always have found it somewhat distasteful mechanics that would allow the AI to "magically teleport" anywhere they want. If they could do that, why wouldn't they do that as soon as you started taking more planets to cover your homeworld. It seems like a blatant violations of their own rules they are supposed to follow.
If this didn't involve needing to construct new things they don't normally have, I'd think you had a point.  But in this case it's a bit like saying of a medieval strategy game "siege towers are cheating; if the AI could get over my walls with those why didn't it park siege towers in front of all of its castles in case one was taken?" :)
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Counterattack Posts
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 06:47:27 pm »
I certainly like the idea of giving the AI the capacity to take a "stuck" threatball and eventually make it "unstuck" on its own. Throwing it a few hops into human territory by allowing it to build a "siege tower" to hope over the human's "wall" actually seems like a pretty elegant solution, too. Like some others here, though, I'm not sure about this mechanic is a complete replacement for counterattack posts, which also serve the purpose of slowing/complicating taking AI worlds. Wouldn't we need something to replace that aspect of them as well?

 

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