Author Topic: Counter Dark Matter Turrets  (Read 2114 times)

Offline MaxAstro

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Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« on: February 12, 2010, 12:19:07 pm »
Their range is ~incredibly~ small.  Maybe I am missing something basic in how you deploy them, but they have a high energy cost, a tiny unit cap, and less than half the range of tractor beam turrets.  This basically means you need two per wormhole you want to protect from astro trains (one for the turrets and one for the tractor beams), possibly even three if you want to have a minefield of a decent size.

Considering they have a hefty research cost, they really do not seem to be useful.  I was expecting a unit that could at least protect a wormhole from astro trains on its own...

In my current game I am getting hammered by a constant flow of trains (no less than five trains in most of my systems at all times) and so researched these things in the hope of helping keep my defenses alive.  But I honestly feel I wasted the knowledge...

Offline orzelek

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 02:43:26 pm »
I think that they were supposed to have ranges buffed not long time ago.

What version are you using?

Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 04:17:04 pm »
Note that some of the Zenith units use dark matter, like the Polarizer (which is deadly to turrets).

Offline Doddler

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 11:27:02 pm »
I guess buffing counter dark matter turrets would make them too effective against polarizers?

Well personally it would be really nice if a structure existed that you could use that would block the attacks/effects of astro trains in the current system.  I've seen some game starts that are a huge wreck because the majority of a systems resources exist between portals and turret trains alone rob you of all of your starting resources in minutes and make rebuilding almost impossible.  It would be nice if there was a blanket counter for them on friendly systems, even if they were expensive to build, or maybe just expensive to research (3000-4000 ish?), so that players at a disadvantage due to trains can make use of it off the start if they need to.

Offline Kjara

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 01:22:13 am »
Why don't we make either havestors or exo-shields(actually I like exo-shields better so you are paying a cost for it), immune to negative energy?  Then trains would still be a huge threat to your turrets, but it wouldn't be crippling if you have a bad random placement of your starting resource spots?

Offline deMangler

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 01:44:19 am »
Why don't we make either havestors or exo-shields(actually I like exo-shields better so you are paying a cost for it), immune to negative energy?  Then trains would still be a huge threat to your turrets, but it wouldn't be crippling if you have a bad random placement of your starting resource spots?
A version of harvester exo-shields that blocks dark matter would be totally excellent.
I would pay. :)
dM

Offline vince0018

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 03:25:29 am »
  I've been placing my counter dark matter turrets very carefully only where i need them. Like if I have an orbital facility within a shield over a wormhole. But even with four trains in my system at any one time I've never had a train destroy a turret. They use to destroy my mining facilities but after building exo-shields they haven't been destroyed. I actually find I have very little need for counter dark matter turrets, though I did wonder why you can only build a few. I am playing on difficulty 7 for both AI's and moderate AI strategies, all extra's(golems, mauraders,etc) 80 planet map. EDIT: Also with schizophrenic. That reminds me, I was wondering earlier why that is called schizophrenic. This causes the AI to use multiple types of ships per wave if I read it correctly. To me this sounds more like a smarter general than someone who's schizophrenic. Well then I can say I do send multiple types of ships when I attack the AI so I'm schizophrenic I guess that means that could make it true in a way.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 05:58:22 am by vince0018 »

Offline Excession

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 04:39:43 am »
I turn trains off - it's the only starting option I do this with - way too much micro keeping stuff out of their way or time spent killing them...

Offline Captain Cake

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 01:55:46 pm »
Their range is ~incredibly~ small.  Maybe I am missing something basic in how you deploy them, but they have a high energy cost, a tiny unit cap, and less than half the range of tractor beam turrets.  This basically means you need two per wormhole you want to protect from astro trains (one for the turrets and one for the tractor beams), possibly even three if you want to have a minefield of a decent size.

I only ever use them to protect my cluster of tractor and tachyon beams (100% the most important defensive structures in the game imo), as for the turrets they draw the short end of the stick for me.  Generally I've got my turrets at almost max range around my wormhole and spread around the wormhole, so when an astrotrain motorcade busts through only a very small portion of my defenses go down, and thats where the remains rebuilders come in. (I'll come back and attach a screenshot of my example wormhole defense.)

First two pics shows range of dark matter turret covering tractor and tachyon beams, third pic is my typical wormhole defense. I'd suggest altering turret position a bit so they stay our of the way of the trains as much as possible. Although I wouldn't stack up all your turrets in one place so as to maintain the best coverage that you can with your turrets.

Another option would be to map out the ranges of the astro trains as they fly through your system and build your defenses around that, although I think that might be pretty hard to defend.


Note that some of the Zenith units use dark matter, like the Polarizer (which is deadly to turrets).

Never knew that, infact Polarizers are one of the ships I had the biggest problem with destroying my defenses. Now if I can just figure out how to get them to die...   :'(

A version of harvester exo-shields that blocks dark matter would be totally excellent.
I would pay. :)
dM

Seconded, but maybe that's because I can't bring myself to use them as it is, maybe I'm just missing the point of the exo-shields.

Also with schizophrenic. That reminds me, I was wondering earlier why that is called schizophrenic. This causes the AI to use multiple types of ships per wave if I read it correctly. To me this sounds more like a smarter general than someone who's schizophrenic. Well then I can say I do send multiple types of ships when I attack the AI so I'm schizophrenic I guess that means that could make it true in a way.

I think its meant to imply craziness and lack of predictability, which seems suitable for what it says it does. (never tried it, does it show ??? for the incoming wave? like "300 ??? to Place in 2:30")

I turn trains off - it's the only starting option I do this with - way too much micro keeping stuff out of their way or time spent killing them...

I like to have them on as they provide attrition to my backwater defenses aside from that they are a minor annoyance. Although I wish there was an option to disable astrotrains showing up on the galaxy map. I'll see I have a few enemies in one of my safe systems, freak out, go there, realize its only an astrotrain then resume normal play, until the next time I open the galaxy map.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 02:34:55 pm by Captain Cake »
I love criticism! Think I'm wrong or something? Let me know!

Offline Kordy

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Re: Counter Dark Matter Turrets
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 01:50:41 am »
Also with schizophrenic. That reminds me, I was wondering earlier why that is called schizophrenic. This causes the AI to use multiple types of ships per wave if I read it correctly. To me this sounds more like a smarter general than someone who's schizophrenic. Well then I can say I do send multiple types of ships when I attack the AI so I'm schizophrenic I guess that means that could make it true in a way.

I think its meant to imply craziness and lack of predictability, which seems suitable for what it says it does. (never tried it, does it show ??? for the incoming wave? like "300 ??? to Place in 2:30")

Just "300 Enemy AI ships incoming to Place in XX:XX".